Cryptocurrencies
- Thread starter Moltuae
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Found this article interesting:
How the Blockchain Will Help Fix the Internet
Link: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/op-ed-how-blockchain-will-help-fix-internet/
Incidentally, I think I mentioned earlier about a customer who wanted to get into mining cryptocurrencies (partly because the business generates its own electricity on-site, which makes mining potentially quite lucrative for them): I have since purchased an Antminer S9 (ASIC) miner (which I received a couple of weeks ago) and built a custom 6 x GPU rig for them, both of which are running well, producing a good ROI. I'll post some photos and more details here when I have time, if anyone is interested? ....
How the Blockchain Will Help Fix the Internet
Link: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/op-ed-how-blockchain-will-help-fix-internet/
Incidentally, I think I mentioned earlier about a customer who wanted to get into mining cryptocurrencies (partly because the business generates its own electricity on-site, which makes mining potentially quite lucrative for them): I have since purchased an Antminer S9 (ASIC) miner (which I received a couple of weeks ago) and built a custom 6 x GPU rig for them, both of which are running well, producing a good ROI. I'll post some photos and more details here when I have time, if anyone is interested? ....
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Yes please
So the Antminer S9 arrived at the end of February, a few weeks earlier than expected. Shipping for this batch wasn't due to start until March. Since I had placed the order less than a month earlier (4th Feb), I assumed I'd be at the back of the queue and expected to have to wait until at least the end of March.
Here's the unboxing photos ....
So this thing is presently heating my workshop while I experiment with different mining pools for the best profitability. I usually use electric heaters in my workshop but the S9 pumps out more than enough heat alone to heat it.
In colder climates (like the UK), used as a space heater it costs about the same to run as a small electric fan heater (around 1300W, I believe). Bottom-line profitability of course depends on electricity costs and the present Bitcoin value (or whatever cryptocurrency you're mining) but even with the relatively high UK electricity prices it seems to be able to manage to generate about twice as much as it costs to run.
It's too early to get a good mining average yet, but it seems to be able to achieve at least 11mBTC per day (presently around £11 or $14), which equates to over £300 ($370) per month or about £4000 ($5000) per year. So if, like my customer, you have a free source of electricity, or you use the thing as a heater, ROI is about 6 months, otherwise it's more like 12 months.
One point I should mention is that these things are quite loud when running! Not unbearably so. They're louder than a typical rack-mount server but a little quieter than the average vacuum cleaner. You can hold a conversation in the same room as an S9 fairly easily.
We began looking into GPU mining rigs too. This is where things get interesting. Somewhat surprisingly, with the right graphics cards, these can be just as profitable (if not more so). I'll post more on this later, but here's a photo of the test rig for now, complete with 2 x PSUs, 6 x GPUs (with risers) and 1 motherboard ...
Here's the unboxing photos ....
So this thing is presently heating my workshop while I experiment with different mining pools for the best profitability. I usually use electric heaters in my workshop but the S9 pumps out more than enough heat alone to heat it.
In colder climates (like the UK), used as a space heater it costs about the same to run as a small electric fan heater (around 1300W, I believe). Bottom-line profitability of course depends on electricity costs and the present Bitcoin value (or whatever cryptocurrency you're mining) but even with the relatively high UK electricity prices it seems to be able to manage to generate about twice as much as it costs to run.
It's too early to get a good mining average yet, but it seems to be able to achieve at least 11mBTC per day (presently around £11 or $14), which equates to over £300 ($370) per month or about £4000 ($5000) per year. So if, like my customer, you have a free source of electricity, or you use the thing as a heater, ROI is about 6 months, otherwise it's more like 12 months.
One point I should mention is that these things are quite loud when running! Not unbearably so. They're louder than a typical rack-mount server but a little quieter than the average vacuum cleaner. You can hold a conversation in the same room as an S9 fairly easily.
We began looking into GPU mining rigs too. This is where things get interesting. Somewhat surprisingly, with the right graphics cards, these can be just as profitable (if not more so). I'll post more on this later, but here's a photo of the test rig for now, complete with 2 x PSUs, 6 x GPUs (with risers) and 1 motherboard ...
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fencepost
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If you're in a place with electric heat or free power (e.g. solar, wind or hydro that's not feasible to sell back into the grid) then these could make all the sense in the world. Would be interesting to see one of these set up tied to a thermostat - need more heat? Crank up another core!
Depending on the setup you might also be able to mount it to allow vertical airflow and get a bit of simple convection cooling, but that may crank out too much heat to do without the fans anyway. You can also do a limited chimney at the output, the rising hot air can actually pull air through faster for better cooling.
Depending on the setup you might also be able to mount it to allow vertical airflow and get a bit of simple convection cooling, but that may crank out too much heat to do without the fans anyway. You can also do a limited chimney at the output, the rising hot air can actually pull air through faster for better cooling.
Precisely our thinking. As you say, if you generate ample electricity that you can't sell back to the grid (which is often the case) or you can make use of the heat, it becomes a no-brainer. My customer falls into both categories. They also have an ORC generator on-site and numerous solar panels. They're very excited by the results so far and they're already doing the math(s) and considering investing in many more rigs (and possibly more solar panels!). Installing these rigs for bushiness customers could prove to be very lucrative!
Now, what surprised me was how well the multi-GPU rig compared with the S9. In many situations, the GPU rig makes more sense ...
Antminer S9 Pros:
- Ready-made unit. Purpose-built and comes with a 12 month warranty.
- Compact size.
- The most energy efficient ASIC miner available (~1300W).
- Very easy to configure.
- Loud fans.
- Likely to have a low residual value in future.
GPU rig Pros:
- Readily available parts.
- Much quieter operation.
- Easily repairable/serviceable.
- Good residual value (of parts).
- Requires custom build/config.
- Large & bulky (Takes up about 4 times as much space as an S9).
For a home/office mining rig/heater, the GPU rig probably makes the most sense, whereas the S9 is probably best suited to larger operations or warehouse mining farms.
Some more photos of the GPU rig:
We're running NiceHash on the GPU rig, and this is how much it's earning:
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Something else worth mentioning/considering ....
For home mining/heating, there's also the Antminer R4. Not as powerful as the S9, but less expensive and much quieter:
https://enshop.bitmain.com/market.htm?name=antminer_r4_silent_bitcoin_miner_for_home
I'm looking to buy a couple of these when the next batch becomes available.
For home mining/heating, there's also the Antminer R4. Not as powerful as the S9, but less expensive and much quieter:
https://enshop.bitmain.com/market.htm?name=antminer_r4_silent_bitcoin_miner_for_home
I'm looking to buy a couple of these when the next batch becomes available.
The UN Wants to Adopt Bitcoin And Ethereum – And Soon
Article Link: http://www.coindesk.com/the-united-nations-wants-to-accept-ethereum-and-bitcoin-and-soon/
Article Link: http://www.coindesk.com/the-united-nations-wants-to-accept-ethereum-and-bitcoin-and-soon/
occsean
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We have numerous combinations. We're still experimenting and playing around with different configurations for different purposes (eg smaller mining rigs that can also be used as a PC and an office heater).
On the larger rigs, like the one in the photos, we began by using more specialised kit such as the ASRock H81 Pro 'BTC' (R2.0) motherboards, mainly because it's a purpose-designed mining board with 6 PCIe slots (much like the BioStar board you mention). We've since stopped using those board for a number of reasons. Firstly there's availability: If you do find somewhere that has them in stock, they seem to sell out fast. Then there's the issue of power: Running more than 4 or 5 GPUs means you're either going to have to use a much more expensive high wattage PSU or run dual PSUs on a single-motherboard rig (which can be done, but it's a hassle and a temperamental solution at best).
For better parts availability, reliability and build simplicity, we've started using more commonly available boards with just 3 or 4 PCIe slots, such as the Gigabyte GA-H81M-S2H or the ASUS H81M-Plus. We're still building 6-8 card rigs, but we've begun using two motherboards (with two PSUs) instead. Apart form being more standard and reliable, it breaks the rigs down into smaller units, meaning that if a single rig is down for any reason, it has less impact on the overall loss of mining income. Of course it costs a little more for the extra motherboard, CPU, memory etc, but we're using cheap memory and low-end Celeron CPUs since CPU performance is not important.
GPU-wise, we've played around with a few different cards, namely the GTX1060, the GTX 970 and numerous incarnations of the RX 480. I believe @MudRock has probably experimented with more cards than we have. You can check which cards are the most profitable here. We began leaning towards the RX 480 8GB cards, believing those to have the higher hash rate but in fact we've found the cheaper 4GB cards to be almost identical in that respect. Depending on how you plan to operate and upgrade the rigs, you may want to take resale value of cards into account too. Resale value on the 8GB cards does seem slighter better than the 4GB cards, with used 8GB cards frequently selling on Ebay for more than the price of new cards. We've recently been using these cards, mainly because the price and availability was good. One thing to bear in mind with 'OC' (factory over-clocked) cards such as those though is that you'll want to throttle the GPU back a little using 'Wattman'. We're finding -15-20% to be about right. Running the GPU faster than that uses more power for little/no gain in hash rate performance and can also lead to instability.
Another thing to consider is the PCIe risers: We began using the 'USB' type risers (as in the photo) but they're unreliable unless you carefully glue every connection to prevent movement. I'm presently experimenting with (x4 x to x16) ribbon risers, which seem to be more reliable. You will need the 'powered' variety of these though.
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MudRock
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Thanks @Moltuae !
Moltuae seems to be our resident expert here, but I've been having fun tinkering.
Really, at the end of the day, there are many factors when it comes to choosing the right cards and rigs for us. Are you looking for lowest risk? Fastest reward? Many questions need to be asked. I am currently actively running a GTX 760, GTX 1070 and an RX 480 4GB (The same one that Moltuae linked. I think we both bumbled into the same one on accident.)
My 760 doesn't earn much, and goes to show you that you won't see benefit to older hardware, and your new hardware WILL fall off. My 1070 is over 50% faster, but when you're dealing with a card over double the price, it looks FAR less lucrative.
A lot of what you'll find is that it seems past generation hardware gets eclipsed by newer hardware, and fast. And as much awesomeness as running multiple 1080Tis sound, there is a darned good chance you will not see the cost of your card back at the end of the day, even when reselling it when the 1180 comes out (Guessing at name haha). From all my research and exploration into this topic, you do need to be cautious as to what point you enter the race and your ROI, if you are looking to cover your price. I obviously started right before Vega was supposed to come out, so it was a slight bit risky proposition. Now that Vega is delayed up to 6 months, with the 5xx in its place, I'm in a good position to recoup my costs and make some fast momentum.
Again, overclocking (and even underclocking) may vary in your results considerably, and will be HEAVILY based on how much your power cost is. I'm in a scenario where the increase in watts doesn't affect me in the slightest (We're talking pennies a month difference) but I can eak out up to 8% more just running that card's default speed vs stock, with no errors yet.
The last thing to note; I wouldn't even bother CPU mining. People have been saying Ryzen has brought back CPU mining. It hasn't. It's STILL terrible. 72-hour burn in, and I made about a quarter. GPU or ASIC mining, at least for now, is the only option.
We, as technicians, have a bit of an advantage. Whereas Moltuae is running new equipment and is experienced, I'm using old rigs I have and ones I've purchased from clients to decrease my costs. It may not be huge, but if you're looking at the 3-card rigs that Moltuae is describing above, it can also reduce your ROI timeframes.
What you all need to know, however, is this is just like any other investments. There are risks, and many. But there is the possibility to grow as well.
Moltuae seems to be our resident expert here, but I've been having fun tinkering.
Really, at the end of the day, there are many factors when it comes to choosing the right cards and rigs for us. Are you looking for lowest risk? Fastest reward? Many questions need to be asked. I am currently actively running a GTX 760, GTX 1070 and an RX 480 4GB (The same one that Moltuae linked. I think we both bumbled into the same one on accident.)
My 760 doesn't earn much, and goes to show you that you won't see benefit to older hardware, and your new hardware WILL fall off. My 1070 is over 50% faster, but when you're dealing with a card over double the price, it looks FAR less lucrative.
A lot of what you'll find is that it seems past generation hardware gets eclipsed by newer hardware, and fast. And as much awesomeness as running multiple 1080Tis sound, there is a darned good chance you will not see the cost of your card back at the end of the day, even when reselling it when the 1180 comes out (Guessing at name haha). From all my research and exploration into this topic, you do need to be cautious as to what point you enter the race and your ROI, if you are looking to cover your price. I obviously started right before Vega was supposed to come out, so it was a slight bit risky proposition. Now that Vega is delayed up to 6 months, with the 5xx in its place, I'm in a good position to recoup my costs and make some fast momentum.
Again, overclocking (and even underclocking) may vary in your results considerably, and will be HEAVILY based on how much your power cost is. I'm in a scenario where the increase in watts doesn't affect me in the slightest (We're talking pennies a month difference) but I can eak out up to 8% more just running that card's default speed vs stock, with no errors yet.
The last thing to note; I wouldn't even bother CPU mining. People have been saying Ryzen has brought back CPU mining. It hasn't. It's STILL terrible. 72-hour burn in, and I made about a quarter. GPU or ASIC mining, at least for now, is the only option.
We, as technicians, have a bit of an advantage. Whereas Moltuae is running new equipment and is experienced, I'm using old rigs I have and ones I've purchased from clients to decrease my costs. It may not be huge, but if you're looking at the 3-card rigs that Moltuae is describing above, it can also reduce your ROI timeframes.
What you all need to know, however, is this is just like any other investments. There are risks, and many. But there is the possibility to grow as well.
Cryptocurrency Prices Explode! Bitcoin at $1600, Ethereum at $100
Article Link: https://www.financemagnates.com/cry...ncy-prices-explode-bitcoin-1600-ethereum-100/
The crypto price explosion is probably not news to most but I wonder what everyone's views are on this.
My view is that we appear to have reached a tipping point, largely because of the combined effects of accelerating acceptance, adoption and regulation in various countries. The most recent of these being Japan of course but also the news that Russia and a few other countries may soon follow suit seems to be having a speculative effect.
Predictably, the Bitcoin price history has been a wild roller-coaster ride, with its value gradually increasing but wildly fluctuating. Almost every other altcoin is still going through that phase (and indeed some may never leave it) but it seems to me that the driving factor behind Bitcoin's price is now shifting from speculation to adoption.
EDIT: On that point, this article was published just after I made this post:
Bitcoin Is Advancing Rapidly Like In Early Days Of Internet: Experts
Article Link: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-is-advancing-rapidly-like-in-early-days-of-internet-experts
As for the altcoins, anybody got any predictions for the next cryptocurrency to rocket in value?
My personal favourite right now (and one which is not in the poll) is CreditBit. Still very new and seriously undervalued at present but has some incredible features that is getting it a lot of attention:
http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/05/01/former-us-congressman-shows-support-creditbit-project/
http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/04/28/charlie-shrem-onboard-creditbit/
CreditBit WhitePaper: https://www.creditbit.org/downloads/WHITEPAPER-CREDIT2.0_2FINAL.pdf
My guess is this one will see at least a ten-fold increase in the next few months. That's purely a guess based on personal experience of course though, and not investment advice!
Article Link: https://www.financemagnates.com/cry...ncy-prices-explode-bitcoin-1600-ethereum-100/
The crypto price explosion is probably not news to most but I wonder what everyone's views are on this.
My view is that we appear to have reached a tipping point, largely because of the combined effects of accelerating acceptance, adoption and regulation in various countries. The most recent of these being Japan of course but also the news that Russia and a few other countries may soon follow suit seems to be having a speculative effect.
Predictably, the Bitcoin price history has been a wild roller-coaster ride, with its value gradually increasing but wildly fluctuating. Almost every other altcoin is still going through that phase (and indeed some may never leave it) but it seems to me that the driving factor behind Bitcoin's price is now shifting from speculation to adoption.
EDIT: On that point, this article was published just after I made this post:
Bitcoin Is Advancing Rapidly Like In Early Days Of Internet: Experts
Article Link: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-is-advancing-rapidly-like-in-early-days-of-internet-experts
As for the altcoins, anybody got any predictions for the next cryptocurrency to rocket in value?
My personal favourite right now (and one which is not in the poll) is CreditBit. Still very new and seriously undervalued at present but has some incredible features that is getting it a lot of attention:
http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/05/01/former-us-congressman-shows-support-creditbit-project/
http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/04/28/charlie-shrem-onboard-creditbit/
CreditBit WhitePaper: https://www.creditbit.org/downloads/WHITEPAPER-CREDIT2.0_2FINAL.pdf
My guess is this one will see at least a ten-fold increase in the next few months. That's purely a guess based on personal experience of course though, and not investment advice!
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Bitcoin Price Hits All-Time High at $1,733, Investors See $4,000 Ahead
Article Link: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-price-hits-all-time-high-at-1733-investors-see-4000-ahead
Bitcoin Is Good Long Term Investment: Major Silicon Valley Startup CEO
Article Link: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-is-good-long-term-investment-major-silicon-valley-startup-ceo
Article Link: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-price-hits-all-time-high-at-1733-investors-see-4000-ahead
Bitcoin Is Good Long Term Investment: Major Silicon Valley Startup CEO
Article Link: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-is-good-long-term-investment-major-silicon-valley-startup-ceo
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maddenslayer
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This is a very interesting topic, especially with the recent spike in bitcoin value. I have been using bitcoin for about 2 years now and regret that I hadn't invested more. I am going to look into some mining options. Thanks for all the great info.
A superb and interesting talk by Andreas.
Whatever your views on Bitcoin (and cryptocurrencies in general) are, this is a must-watch video. He's absolutely spot on about the state of the mainstream media.
Fake News, Fake Money:
And on the subject of the recent Ransomware outbreaks and some of the misinformation being spread by the mainstream media, Andreas made the following comments:
Whatever your views on Bitcoin (and cryptocurrencies in general) are, this is a must-watch video. He's absolutely spot on about the state of the mainstream media.
Fake News, Fake Money:
And on the subject of the recent Ransomware outbreaks and some of the misinformation being spread by the mainstream media, Andreas made the following comments:
“The Flippening” & How I Learned to Stop Loving Bitcoin
Link: https://hackernoon.com/the-flippening-how-i-learned-to-stop-loving-bitcoin-663e5db40707
A very good opinion piece article. Quite long, but well worth the read I think for anyone interested in or following the development of cryptocurrencies.
Link: https://hackernoon.com/the-flippening-how-i-learned-to-stop-loving-bitcoin-663e5db40707
A very good opinion piece article. Quite long, but well worth the read I think for anyone interested in or following the development of cryptocurrencies.
Incredible to think, when I stated this thread, 5 months ago, Bitcoin was trading just below $1000 ...
Bitcoin breaks through $2,100, trades at $2,500 in Japan
Article Link: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoin-breaks-through-2100-trades-2500-japan-1622768
And even more incredible, is that today marks Bitcoin Pizza Day, when just 7 years ago the very first Bitcoin purchase was made, buying a pizza for 10,000 BTC. At today's prices, that's over $20 million .... for a pizza!!
And Lilly Allen must be gutted. She would've been worth over $400 million now:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...regrets-turning-down-118m-bitcoin-payday.html
We Have a Lot to Celebrate During Bitcoin Pizza Day 2017
Article Link: http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/05/22/lot-celebrate-bitcoin-pizza-day-2017/
Bitcoin breaks through $2,100, trades at $2,500 in Japan
Article Link: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoin-breaks-through-2100-trades-2500-japan-1622768
And even more incredible, is that today marks Bitcoin Pizza Day, when just 7 years ago the very first Bitcoin purchase was made, buying a pizza for 10,000 BTC. At today's prices, that's over $20 million .... for a pizza!!
And Lilly Allen must be gutted. She would've been worth over $400 million now:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...regrets-turning-down-118m-bitcoin-payday.html
We Have a Lot to Celebrate During Bitcoin Pizza Day 2017
Article Link: http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/05/22/lot-celebrate-bitcoin-pizza-day-2017/
nlinecomputers
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And exactly what exchange is prepared to pay $400 million? It isn't worth anything if you can't find anyone able to do the transaction.
fencepost
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Heck, at $400m you consider whether it makes sense to start your own exchange or invest in one, providing you with a market and the option to sell it.