Desktop boot problem and bad repair shop experience: seeking your opinion

[MHCG]

Power supplies like any electronic component can fail in different ways. It just so happens that the power supply is hooked up to a bunch of other things so depending on how it fails it can affect other things. I personally have never seen a computer power supply by itself take out other components, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

The power supply provides several different voltages to the motherboard. Suppose a component that regulates voltage on the power supply failed. That could easily take out everything that uses that particular voltage. It's not common because there are so many other things that could go before it statistically speaking. It is however well within the realm of possibility.

I was actually trained in electronics and I worked as a electronics technician for 12 years. Computers is something I picked up as a hobby originally.

 

[MrMille]

Perhaps a BSc or BEng could answer those power supply questions for you.

I'd be inclinded to think that if a component that regulates the current/voltage on the output side of the power supply were to fail, then possibly, damaging current/voltage could be passed to the mobo. But good design would dictate that a fuse is also on the output side to prevent this.

So, perhaps the "bad psu damaged mobo" myth just needs to be busted.

 

[MHCG]

A fuse won't do anything if the voltage suddenly went from 5v to 15v. Fuses blow on amps not volts.

 

[14049752]

I've been working on computers professionally for nearly 12 years. I tell you that because while I don't consider myself an expert by any means, I do have a bit of experience under my belt. It is rare, but I have had to replace motherboards that I suspect were damaged by a faulty power supply.
About two weeks ago, one of my larger clients had almost the exact situation...computer plugged into a battery backup, but the power supply went bad. I replaced out the power supply, but the motherboard still wouldn't power on. I'm fairly sure the power supply caused damage to the board in that case.

A bad power supply CAN damage other components. Anyone that would say otherwise: I have a power supply for you. Let's install it on your motherboard.

New power supplies basically work by using step-down transformers to convert your 110 (or 220) voltage to 12, 5, and 3.3 voltages as needed. If you've ever used a power supply tester with an lcd readout (or a multimeter) you'll see that those fluctuate within a "safe" range. It's very easy for them to fail, for a number of reasons, and go above or below the safe zone. A lot of times, there isn't a fuse between the transformer and the output to the other components, only between the ac input and transformer, so an amperage increase there might not blow the fuse but repeated fluctuations could cause problems over time, or all at once.

 

[stevenamills]

FWIW I've replaced a boatload of power supplies and 4 of those times the MB was bad.

All EMachines of the same vintage. Probably not a coincidence.

steve

 

[Pc Fixed Right]

$275 is ridiculous. Pay them for a diagnosis and that is all.

 

[NWPhotog]

FWIW I've replaced a boatload of power supplies and 4 of those times the MB was bad.

All EMachines of the same vintage. Probably not a coincidence.

steve

That's what I have been told. With an Emachine it is likely. With all others it is possible but maybe 1 in 1000.

 

[Crgky127]

I got good news, bad news, and worse news. Good news is that well over 50% of the time it's just the PSU. Part of this category is when PSUs just get old and stop delivering power altogether (rather than being under or over acceptable limits), the other part is being the first (within the computer) line of defense against surges. Bad news (as others have said) is that PSUs can damage other components. Most of the time it's the motherboard, and I don't know a way to know for sure without using a known good PSU. This is more common with poor quality ones like Bestec (found in aforementioned Emachines). Worse news is that motherboards can damage PSUs. A number of Emahines models (google emachines class action) have been known to do this, where a PSU tests bad, a new one is installed, and the mobo fries that one too. Unfortunately it will cost you a PSU to get this diagnosis, but luckily this is much less common than a PSU damaging a motherboard.

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

You don't owe these guys anything. There is a very good chance that they damaged the motherboard or the BIOS system themselves. They should have hooked up a monitor and completed a diagnostic on it before talking you into ordering any parts, especially a power supply.

My words of advice is abandon it, forget it, put it out of your mind. You have learn an important life lesson. If the guy does not sound like he knows what he is talking about, he doesn't know what he is talking about.

I guarantee that there is nothing wrong with the hard drives, but as you say "there is nothing on them that I want." You need to deal with people that are a little more professional, at least.

Is there any economic value to the shop in keeping my 3+ year-old Dimension 9100? Are the components of any particular value? I'm a bit surprised they haven't simply accepted my offer to pay a reasonable diagnostic fee...so far, I'm still waiting to hear back from the owner, who's being avoidant. They may simply be stalling with the thought that I'll be willing to pay more simply to get the computer back. The reality is, I may want to get it back on principle, since it's my property, but I don't have any use for it now. Still, if there's any actual value to it, I'm not sure I would want to leave it for these guys to keep, since they're basically unprofessional and I suspect, dishonest...

 

[Checkmate]

Is there any economic value to the shop in keeping my 3+ year-old Dimension 9100? Are the components of any particular value? ... Still, if there's any actual value to it, I'm not sure I would want to leave it for these guys to keep, since they're basically unprofessional and I suspect, dishonest...

They could turn it around as a refurbished unit. Replace the mainboard, the "bad HDs" and then crank it out for about $400-$500 as a rebuilt system. So yeah, unfortunately there is some value to it. Even value in it for you, you could auction it off on EBay as a dead system for $150 or so. Possibely recover your cost in diagnostic fee.

 

[NWPhotog]

Is there any economic value to the shop in keeping my 3+ year-old Dimension 9100? Are the components of any particular value? I'm a bit surprised they haven't simply accepted my offer to pay a reasonable diagnostic fee...so far, I'm still waiting to hear back from the owner, who's being avoidant. They may simply be stalling with the thought that I'll be willing to pay more simply to get the computer back. The reality is, I may want to get it back on principle, since it's my property, but I don't have any use for it now. Still, if there's any actual value to it, I'm not sure I would want to leave it for these guys to keep, since they're basically unprofessional and I suspect, dishonest...

It is worth about $50 for salvageable parts. Like you wrote I think they are holding out with the hope that you really do need it back. Has BBB sent them notice yet?

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

It is worth about $50 for salvageable parts. Like you wrote I think they are holding out with the hope that you really do need it back. Has BBB sent them notice yet?

Yes, BBB notified them. They haven't replied yet but they still have several weeks to reply.

The small company I'm dealing with seems very unprofessional. In my experience, businesses would rather resolve a situation in an amicable manner - especially if they screwed up. Usually it's not worth risking bad press. It's almost comical to me that this firm would tell me, "We've found the problem with your system," recommend a solution and implement it, then say, "Oops - you have far worse problems, we don't want to mess with it anymore," and THEN say: "Oh, so just give us $275 and pick up your inoperable computer." Are they kidding?

 

[NWPhotog]

They could turn it around as a refurbished unit. Replace the mainboard, the "bad HDs" and then crank it out for about $400-$500 as a rebuilt system. So yeah, unfortunately there is some value to it. Even value in it for you, you could auction it off on EBay as a dead system for $150 or so. Possibely recover your cost in diagnostic fee.

P.S. I can get an unlimited quantity of these computers in good condition with the XP COA for $70-$125. So if you know any one who can sell em for $300-$400 fill me in! I'll sell em to them for $200 so they have good margin AND give you 10% of the net as a finders fee!

 

[Blues]

I would say the system would only be worth $200-$300 when refurbed. Salavage for parts you can get $50-$200 but it is easy to get back you investment through a few salavaged parts then the work put in on a refurb.

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

The conclusion to this story

For anyone that's replied to this thread and is interested in the follow-up:

About a week ago, I sent a certified letter to the owner of the business, restating the events. I again said that I was willing to pay a reasonable "diagnostic fee" of $75-$100, but nothing more. I also reminded them of the guarantee posted on their website. Finally, I said that I do intend to get my computer back and that if the matter isn't resolved (by a specific date), I was going to file in Small Claims court. I didn't hear anything for a few days but this morning, the tech who originally worked on the computer left me an angry message stating: "You can come get your computer and leave your money at home. We don't want your money or your computer. Please pick it up as soon as possible!"

When we did so this afternoon, the same guy angrily stated, "We put a lot of work into this computer and it's been nothing but a headache!" So after a month, that was the end of it. I have my junk system and I paid nothing (except for time and energy).

My final thought: If this company had simply admitted that they made a mistake and said, "Well, it turns out we were wrong -- the problem turned out to be more extensive than we thought, so we're not going to charge you for that power supply," I would have respected their honesty and GLADLY paid them for their time spent trying to diagnose the problem. AND I would have likely been inclined to give them another chance in the future.

But after the way they handled this entire situation, I would not go back to them or recommend them to others. I think there's a lesson to be learned here on how to conduct oneself with customers...

 

[Fred_G]

Sounds very unprofessional to me. Now you need to try to fire that puppy up and let's find out what is wrong with it! There has been a bit of speculation about the condition of the hard drives and the computer. Fire it up!


E

 

[NWPhotog]

For anyone that's replied to this thread and is interested in the follow-up:

About a week ago, I sent a certified letter to the owner of the business, restating the events. I again said that I was willing to pay a reasonable "diagnostic fee" of $75-$100, but nothing more. I also reminded them of the guarantee posted on their website. Finally, I said that I do intend to get my computer back and that if the matter isn't resolved (by a specific date), I was going to file in Small Claims court. I didn't hear anything for a few days but this morning, the tech who originally worked on the computer left me an angry message stating: "You can come get your computer and leave your money at home. We don't want your money or your computer. Please pick it up as soon as possible!"

When we did so this afternoon, the same guy angrily stated, "We put a lot of work into this computer and it's been nothing but a headache!" So after a month, that was the end of it. I have my junk system and I paid nothing (except for time and energy).

My final thought: If this company had simply admitted that they made a mistake and said, "Well, it turns out we were wrong -- the problem turned out to be more extensive than we thought, so we're not going to charge you for that power supply," I would have respected their honesty and GLADLY paid them for their time spent trying to diagnose the problem. AND I would have likely been inclined to give them another chance in the future.

But after the way they handled this entire situation, I would not go back to them or recommend them to others. I think there's a lesson to be learned here on how to conduct oneself with customers...

Employee got reamed by Owner probably. The Owner really is the responsible party. None the less you got a reasonable outcome by sticking to your guns. I would guess the BBB complaint combined with the letter got-r-done!

 

[Jambet]

Here is another thought to consider.

I first I would agree that it would be a power supply problem. In my opinion, any good tech (whether they work ina professional shop or from home) should have certain used parts to test their theory as to the problem witht the machine. The tech should have replaced the power supply, then tried to boot the system, before determining for certain he had solved the problem. from there he should have moved on to the motherboard, cables/wiring and software accessments to determine the cause fo it not booting. If the poblem indeed was the power supply, you should have been given the choice to buy the used power supply or to order a new unit.

There may in fact be other problems with the system, but that should been determined in the initial accessment which only takes a few minutes. It is ok to guess what the problem is, that gives you a good starting place to do a good accessment.

The fact that the tech did poor diagnostic accessment, leads me to question the integrity of the tech. Honesty is alway the best policy! Do you owe the any money? I would only pay for the accessment, not for his mistake or possible dishonesty. Then I would find a different tech.

Get a referral from someplace/someone like Radio Shack, Police/Fire Department Officials, Clergymen, Offic e Supply Stores or High School/College/Vocational School Computer Teachers, etc. These are all excellent source for finding a good & honest repair tech, because these people/places are constantly using and needing the services a tech to repair and upgrade their systems.

I hope this helps you.

 

[Nathan H]

Hey GeorgeSpelvin,

I'm not taking sides here, but I too can see how these events unfolded for the business owner and why he said what he did.

I too can imagine how Pis**D Off I would be if I were the customer.

You mentioned the guarantee posted on their website, if the business owner stated to replace the PSU, CPU, RAM, MOBO & HDD and you chose not to, I personally would consider this as "You choosing not to go ahead with the repair and my obligation would be filled"

Like I said I am not defending him. His company is clearly in the wrong from what you have said, and as it turned out you have your pc back in the same state as when you took it into the shop and it hasn't cost you a penny. so nothing lost to you.

And as for the Business, well they have lost a diagnostic fee, what little reputation they had and for what?

the price of a free apology, it clearly demonstrates who lost the most here.......

 

[bagellad]

you know your situation is very shitty, if your hard drive died then atleast you don't have to worry about any personal information being accessed by them. I think they should have kept you better informed, gave you the proper expectations as a customer and frankly handled the situation better.

Frankly I would write them a letter explaining the situation. Seeing something in writing scares people, idiot business owners included. Its occasional that sometimes you just run into a shitty repair, but they didn't do their homework so its not your fault.