Got my first Mac last week

[sapphirescales]

I've always built my own computers. I owned a Dell back in 1995, but that was my last OEM desktop machine. In the last 20 years, I've had a total of 0 crashes, viruses, or issues with Windows or any hardware component. One day about 15 years ago I was ****** off and angrily shoved the CD drive back into my computer and damaged it. But that doesn't count.

The flexibility of upgrade and repair of PC's is why I stay with them. Apple intentionally makes things of low quality and makes it absolutely impossible to repair. Even replacing the battery in a Macbook has become almost impossible. My Dell Latitude has an easily removable battery and a 1080p display. My custom PC's are extremely affordable both to purchase and to repair. You can't get that with a Mac.

I personally own and maintain 10 computers (5 desktops and 5 laptops). I've never once had a hard drive failure, OS crash, virus infection, or any other problem. But I buy right. I always custom build desktops and buy business class laptops. And I upgrade them throughout their life. I still have and use my 2003 Dell laptop (one of the only laptops I've ever bought that wasn't business class). Runs Windows XP and is maxed out at 768MB of RAM. I don't do anything important on it like banking or anything due to the security issues. But it runs just as good as it did when I took it out of the box and reimaged it back in 2004.

I've bought a few Mac's over the years and the only thing good I can say about them is the accuracy of their touchpads. But that's hardly a reason to spend twice as much on a computer you can't even repair. I currently have 2x 27" iMac computers in here that I got in trade-ins as well as a 15" 2009 Macbook Pro, 13" 2012 Macbook Pro, 13" 2011 Macbook Pro, 15" 2007 Macbook Pro, and a 13" 2006 Macbook Pro. I sell and repair a LOT of Mac's. But I just don't like them and I generally don't recommend them to my clients. But hey, it gets people through the door. Then I can give them the pros and cons of Mac ownership and they can make their own decision whether or not to own one. I'd say 9 out of 10 people that come into my shop to buy a Mac leave with a PC instead. And they never regret their decision after I tell them the truth.

 

[PCX]

I've always built my own computers. I owned a Dell back in 1995, but that was my last OEM desktop machine. In the last 20 years, I've had a total of 0 crashes, viruses, or issues with Windows or any hardware component. One day about 15 years ago I was ****** off and angrily shoved the CD drive back into my computer and damaged it. But that doesn't count.

The flexibility of upgrade and repair of PC's is why I stay with them. Apple intentionally makes things of low quality and makes it absolutely impossible to repair. Even replacing the battery in a Macbook has become almost impossible. My Dell Latitude has an easily removable battery and a 1080p display. My custom PC's are extremely affordable both to purchase and to repair. You can't get that with a Mac.

I personally own and maintain 10 computers (5 desktops and 5 laptops). I've never once had a hard drive failure, OS crash, virus infection, or any other problem. But I buy right. I always custom build desktops and buy business class laptops. And I upgrade them throughout their life. I still have and use my 2003 Dell laptop (one of the only laptops I've ever bought that wasn't business class). Runs Windows XP and is maxed out at 768MB of RAM. I don't do anything important on it like banking or anything due to the security issues. But it runs just as good as it did when I took it out of the box and reimaged it back in 2004.

I've bought a few Mac's over the years and the only thing good I can say about them is the accuracy of their touchpads. But that's hardly a reason to spend twice as much on a computer you can't even repair. I currently have 2x 27" iMac computers in here that I got in trade-ins as well as a 15" 2009 Macbook Pro, 13" 2012 Macbook Pro, 13" 2011 Macbook Pro, 15" 2007 Macbook Pro, and a 13" 2006 Macbook Pro. I sell and repair a LOT of Mac's. But I just don't like them and I generally don't recommend them to my clients. But hey, it gets people through the door. Then I can give them the pros and cons of Mac ownership and they can make their own decision whether or not to own one. I'd say 9 out of 10 people that come into my shop to buy a Mac leave with a PC instead. And they never regret their decision after I tell them the truth.

I almost don't even know what to say to this . . . . 20 years, no problems, really?

Then it must be true, PCs are far more superior than Macs. Cool!

In my experience, while you can have a better built PC than the average Mac, generally speaking, most PCs are crap compared to your average Mac. Macs are limited on their upgrade capability compared most PCs, but their quality is generally much better.

Your last statement about most of your Mac customers switching back to PCs just seems really odd, then again, you are pro PC and they are probably trusting your professional opinion . . . .

 

[sapphirescales]

I almost don't even know what to say to this . . . . 20 years, no problems, really?

Then it must be true, PCs are far more superior than Macs. Cool!

In my experience, while you can have a better built PC than the average Mac, generally speaking, most PCs are crap compared to your average Mac. Macs are limited on their upgrade capability compared most PCs, but their quality is generally much better.

Your last statement about most of your Mac customers switching back to PCs just seems really odd, then again, you are pro PC and they are probably trusting your professional opinion . . . .

I love how people compare a $225 Dell purchased at Walmart to a $2,500 Mac and claim that Mac's are sooooo much higher quality than PC's. LOL. They all use the same parts manufactured by the same manufacturer (Foxconn, Western Digital, Samsung, Sandisk, etc.). What matters is how much money the manufacturer invests into the components. Apple has proven again and again that all it cares about is making the cheapest computer it possibly can so it can maximize profits all the while making high quality enclosures to make their computers FEEL like they're actually high quality.

When I say this to someone that's pro-Mac, they always say "well I've had my Mac for 7 years with no problems!" Well I've also had my PC's for up to 11 years with not one single issue. It's not the brand that counts when it comes to quality, but rather how much money that OEM decides to invest into their computer that makes the difference. That's why business class Dell's and HP's are leaps and bounds higher in quality than their Walmart counterparts. They cost more without necessarily giving you higher specs for the money. Where does the extra money go then? Well unlike Apple it doesn't go into their greedy pockets, but towards making a higher quality machine. All the while Apple spends that extra money inventing new ways to make their products prematurely obsolete and impossible to repair. I refuse to support a company like that. And I can't imagine why anyone that calls themselves a technician would either.

 

[gunslinger]

Ok, I was really hoping this would not turn into one of these threads but there is always that one guy. Lets take this one thing at a time.

In the last 20 years, I've had a total of 0 crashes, viruses, or issues with Windows or any hardware component.

Right from the start I'm going to call complete bs on this. ANY tech on this forum will also call bs on it.

Apple intentionally makes things of low quality and makes it absolutely impossible to repair.

Are you serious? I think most techs on here would also completely disagree with Apple making low quality anything. While their computers have become less easy to work on in that past few years its not impossible if you know what you are doing. Watch an iFixit video every now and again will ya.

I've never once had a hard drive failure

You are either very lucky or your 20 years is actually two.

I still have and use my 2003 Dell laptop ,it runs just as good as it did when I took it out of the box and reimaged it back in 2004.

Awesome, I have a powerbook G4 that runs OSX Tiger from 03 and it still runs like a top as well.

I'd say 9 out of 10 people that come into my shop to buy a Mac leave with a PC instead. And they never regret their decision after I tell them the truth.

They leave with the PC because you feed them a line of pure ****, misinformation and FUD.



Listen, if you like PC better for what ever reason, good for you. But stop making up things to make Apple look bad because you don't like them as a company. It makes you look like a complete idiot. Oh and I didn't see the comment but I have seen many, many people switch from PC to Mac. In 15 years I have only seen one switch from Mac to PC and they came back within one week. Why do I support Apple? I had a 27" iMac die on me a few years ago. It was out of warranty and apple care. I called and they said to bring it in anyway. $700 worth of repairs for free. A while later the MOBO failed. Again they fixed the out of warranty system for free. Why don't you try that with your out of warranty Dell sometime and see what Habbib tells you.

 

[Krynn72]

$2,200 Macs are good computers. $2,200 Windows PCs are good computers. Macs can do some things Windows PCs can't. Windows PCs can do some things Macs can't.

Lets pick specific examples of each and argue over them ad infinitum. Its so very fun.

But seriously, its fun, so I shall continue.

I've never owned a Mac. I work on Macs, and am relatively familiar with them as a result. Having owned quality Windows PCs all my life, I will never buy a Mac. The build quality of them are excellent, there can be no doubt. But frankly, in my opinion, they over engineer the hell out of them to justify the price tag. The quality of my self-built desktops and my Thinkpad Laptops, practically speaking, do the same exact job for less money where build quality is concerned.

As far as the OS is concerned, this is where Windows wins, hands down. There can be no question. Sure, I have had issues with both systems. OSX is more stable (though far from flawless, as I have locked up many a Mac in my time). With my Windows machine, I don't think I've experienced a BSOD since my last XP machine. I've had apps crash plenty of times, but I can just restart the app and all is dandy. While working in the student labs in college, I was often forced to use the "Mac labs" which only had the highest end Mac Pros (to justify the high tuition). I'd get that damn spinning pinwheel a couple times a session and have to restart the machine. Any time I'd try to do something heavy in the app we used, it'd stop responding. I developed my CTRL S habit in the mac labs. I'd usually just do the menial tasks in the mac labs, and take the files home to my PC do the crunchy stuff. Additionally, OSX is extremely limiting to me, as I use all manner of software. As somewhat of a power user, I find myself in many situations where I want to do something my standard software packages cant do. Windows, pretty much always, has someone out there making that one app I need to do it. And that there is why I can never justify buying myself a Mac. Compared to my windows PC, a Mac is just a $2,000 facebook machine.


But if someone were to give me a Mac, I'd be rather happy about it. They do look very cool.

 

[gunslinger]

Another one I see. Ok, your turn.

As far as the OS is concerned, this is where Windows wins, hands down. There can be no question.

Exactly how does Windows win "hands down"? Your example is a Mac lab at school? You mean where hundreds of ppl who are too stupid to tie their shoes install all manner of crap? Where the IT guys are too busy playing mine craft to properly maintain the computers? Or are to ignorant to know how. Good example.

Additionally, OSX is extremely limiting to me, as I use all manner of software.

As a "power user" myself I also use all manner of software and have never found the software on the mac limiting in the least, quite the opposite actually. With the exception of a rare few I have found the apps on Macs much more powerful that most PC programs. The only thing I have to use my Win 7 machine for these days is building my mobile kits on flash drives. For literally everything else I do the Mac is leaps and bounds better. Other than games or certain highly specific programing applications, what do you do that the Mac is incapable of? Facebook machine? You are kidding right? You must be thinking about an Android tablet.

 

[PCX]

I love how people compare a $225 Dell purchased at Walmart to a $2,500 Mac and claim that Mac's are sooooo much higher quality than PC's. LOL.

Yeah, because that happened here, on this forum . . .

Apple has proven again and again that all it cares about is making the cheapest computer it possibly can so it can maximize profits all the while making high quality enclosures to make their computers FEEL like they're actually high quality.

How do you figure? Do you have any proof that Apple spends less on their hardware components then say Dell or Lenovo does on their consumer products. I would honestly love to see this documentation, because I doubt you can convince anyone here of that, but if you do have proof than I would love to know this for my own sake as well as the sake of my customers.

Oh, and my Macbook does feel really really nice. I will admit that.

When I say this to someone that's pro-Mac, they always say "well I've had my Mac for 7 years with no problems!" Well I've also had my PC's for up to 11 years with not one single issue. It's not the brand that counts when it comes to quality, but rather how much money that OEM decides to invest into their computer that makes the difference. That's why business class Dell's and HP's are leaps and bounds higher in quality than their Walmart counterparts. They cost more without necessarily giving you higher specs for the money.

I completely agree.

Where does the extra money go then? Well unlike Apple it doesn't go into their greedy pockets, but towards making a higher quality machine. All the while Apple spends that extra money inventing new ways to make their products prematurely obsolete and impossible to repair. I refuse to support a company like that. And I can't imagine why anyone that calls themselves a technician would either.

Like I said, the average Mac is better than your average consumer grade PC. Yes, you pay more for it AND yes some of that cost is because it is an Apple product, BUT it IS also because Apple does provide a better quality product than the average PC. I am sorry that you don't see that or that you are unaware of that, but it is true.

Hardware aside, in my honest opinion OSX is far more superior than Windows and probably far more superior than Windows will ever be. This both true from a security standpoint and a stability stand point. The only thing that can be really argued is the the OSX UI is a bit harder to get used to, especially when you don't realize that many of the features you miss in Windows is actually available in apps.

PCs have much better upgrade capabilities than a Mac. You could even make a better quality customer built PC with better specs than a Mac and you could probably do it for the same price as a lower end Mac.

But Macs out of the box, generally have better quality parts than most average PCs. Shoot, I have seen Macbooks hold up to water damage WAY better than ANY PC and when the water damage is cleaned and repaired, guess which one usually works . . . Thats right, the Macbook. Even a very high quality consumer grade PC wont hold up to water damage like I have seen Macbooks do.

Oh, and that nice feeling aluminum surface that you like to make fun of Mac users for, I have seen those things come in with massive dents and yet the screen still is intact and the computer still works just fine. Even their hard drives (despite the fact that many of them are Toshiba hard drives) hold up better in a drop than most hard drives in a PCs.

But then again, who's idea was it to use Toshiba hard drives in a Mac in the first place? And why is it that they could never figure out how to make a decent Macbook battery? And why could they not come up with a better speaker for Macbooks? And who the heck came up with the idea for their new Macbook?

So are Macs perfect? Heck no, but do they blow most PCs out of the water when it comes to quality? Heck yes!

Honestly, the only reason why I would spend the same amount on a PC as I would a Mac is if I was a gamer or if had a very specific reason for using Windows over OSX.

The fact is, I am more a Linux guy than anything else, at least I have been up until recently. The new desktop environments that have been coming out over the last few years have pretty much turned me off from using Linux as my main OS. That said, I do use Linux on a daily basis as a technician. I also use Windows on a regular basis, but my main computer is a Macbook. My point is, I am not really pro anything I guess, but I do have a good respect for each type of technology and I understand each of their pros and cons. I am not blinded by ignorance.

Also, I will honestly admit that I used to be a pro PC user and a Pro Windows user. I was even one of those that used to ignorantly claim that Macs were stupid and over priced and were not any better than a PC. But then I became a technician, I mean a real technician. And after experimenting with Linux and then becoming proficient with Linux and after working on thousands of PCs and Macs, I learned just how naive I had been. As already mentioned, each has their pros and cons, but you cannot substantiate the wild claims you are making. You just can't . . . sorry.

 

[gunslinger]

Yeah, because that happened here, on this forum . . .



How do you figure? Do you have any proof that Apple spends less on their hardware components then say Dell or Lenovo does on their consumer products. I would honestly love to see this documentation, because I doubt you can convince anyone here of that, but if you do have proof than I would love to know this for my own sake as well as the sake of my customers.

Oh, and my Macbook does feel really really nice. I will admit that.



I completely agree.



Like I said, the average Mac is better than your average consumer grade PC. Yes, you pay more for it AND yes some of that cost is because it is an Apple product, BUT it IS also because Apple does provide a better quality product than the average PC. I am sorry that you don't see that or that you are unaware of that, but it is true.

Hardware aside, in my honest opinion OSX is far more superior than Windows and probably far more superior than Windows will ever be. This both true from a security standpoint and a stability stand point. The only thing that can be really argued is the the OSX UI is a bit harder to get used to, especially when you don't realize that many of the features you miss in Windows is actually available in apps.

PCs have much better upgrade capabilities than a Mac. You could even make a better quality customer built PC with better specs than a Mac and you could probably do it for the same price as a lower end Mac.

But Macs out of the box, generally have better quality parts than most average PCs. Shoot, I have seen Macbooks hold up to water damage WAY better than ANY PC and when the water damage is cleaned and repaired, guess which one usually works . . . Thats right, the Macbook. Even a very high quality consumer grade PC wont hold up to water damage like I have seen Macbooks do.

Oh, and that nice feeling aluminum surface that you like to make fun of Mac users for, I have seen those things come in with massive dents and yet the screen still is intact and the computer still works just fine. Even their hard drives (despite the fact that many of them are Toshiba hard drives) hold up better in a drop than most hard drives in a PCs.

But then again, who's idea was it to use Toshiba hard drives in a Mac in the first place? And why is it that they could never figure out how to make a decent Macbook battery? And why could they not come up with a better speaker for Macbooks? And who the heck came up with the idea for their new Macbook?

So are Macs perfect? Heck no, but do they blow most PCs out of the water when it comes to quality? Heck yes!

Honestly, the only reason why I would spend the same amount on a PC as I would a Mac is if I was a gamer or if had a very specific reason for using Windows over OSX.

The fact is, I am more a Linux guy than anything else, at least I have been up until recently. The new desktop environments that have been coming out over the last few years have pretty much turned me off from using Linux as my main OS. That said, I do use Linux on a daily basis as a technician. I also use Windows on a regular basis, but my main computer is a Macbook. My point is, I am not really pro anything I guess, but I do have a good respect for each type of technology and I understand each of their pros and cons. I am not blinded by ignorance.

Also, I will honestly admit that I used to be a pro PC user and a Pro Windows user. I was even one of those that used to ignorantly claim that Macs were stupid and over priced and were not any better than a PC. But then I became a technician, I mean a real technician. And after experimenting with Linux and then becoming proficient with Linux and after working on thousands of PCs and Macs, I learned just how naive I had been. As already mentioned, each has their pros and cons, but you cannot substantiate the wild claims you are making. You just can't . . . sorry.

Best post I have seen in months. I could not have said it better.

 

[HFultzjr]

No I don't own a Mac!

But anyone who has used a "Windows" machine for ANY number of years and had ZERO issues, needs a reality check, or needs to start selling their builds. I'm first.....how much, what guarantee?

 

[gunslinger]

No I don't own a Mac!

But anyone who has used a "Windows" machine for ANY number of years and had ZERO issues, needs a reality check, or needs to start selling their builds. I'm first.....how much, what guarantee?

In the last 20 years, I've had a total of 0 crashes, viruses, or issues with Windows or any hardware component.

Yep, he just said 20 years with not a single issue from Windows. I'm guessing from at least Windows 95-Win 8.1 At first glance I thought maybe his definition of "issue" was different than mine. But then he was very specific. Mind=Blown

Its amazing the extent anti-Mac people will go to "prove" their points.

 

[sapphirescales]

I'm not anti-Mac because I necessarily think they are bad computers. I'm anti-Mac because of the Apple COMPANY itself and its policies. If Apple was run by say, Dell, they would be the best computer on earth and I'd convert immediately.

Mac's always have the most horrendous problems that you just never see on a PC. I'll give you an example. An early 2006 White Macbook came in in 2008 with the backlight out on the screen. My first instinct was the inverter and seeing as it was a $12 part, I went ahead and replaced it. That wasn't it. So I sighed and popped in a screen I had lying around. That wasn't it either. I figured it must be the cable then. That wasn't it either. It ended up being the logic board. Raise of hands here, how many people here have ever had a backlight out on a computer (PC or Mac) and had it be the motherboard itself?

It seems with almost every model of iMac and Macbook Apple is forced to issue a recall. They charge 300% more than a standard Dell and offer the SAME warranty. How the heck is that a deal? I'm just using Dell as an example. They're really no better or worse than Apple or any other manufacturer except for their business class systems.

Let's talk about the 2010 Macbook GPU issues (it's an Nvidia issue, I know. But people reported issues with these models early on and Apple denied the problem until they got sued). How about the "Retina" display issues on the Macbook's? How about the LCD panel issues in the 2006 iMac's (mostly the 17" models). I can't think of a brand that had anywhere near the issues that Apple has over the years. The closest thing is the HP DV2000, 6000, and 9000 series laptops with the Nvidia GPU issue that plagued those systems. But they tended to hold up better and for longer than the Macbooks from my experience.

I just don't understand why people always get a hard-on for Apple. They're a TERRIBLE company that INTENTIONALLY makes their computers as unrepairable and expensive as possible while locking their users into their terrible ecosystem with no choices. They look nice. They've got great trackpads. I like the Magsafe charger (at least, before they botched that one up too. 1.5 out of 5 stars with over 2,000 reviews directly from the Apple website:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/M...r-adapter-for-macbook-and-13-inch-macbook-pro

People that think Mac's are great quality computers are dreaming. Apple puts in low quality parts and is a HOME CLASS machine priced even higher than a BUSINESS CLASS with an included 3 year warranty.

I just got a 2014 11" Macbook Air in and it has a Sandisk SSD with 34 hours on it and it's failing. What a surprise. If this were a $225 Walmart computer I could see, but this is a super overpriced good looking pile of trash that doesn't even boot as fast as a 4 year old HP Probook with Windows 10 and an SSD (not even an mSATA SSD, just a standard SATA SSD).

And for those calling BS on me never having a computer issue, you obviously don't know how to build right. I suspect I'll have at least ONE problem before I die, but so far I've been lucky. I spend a good amount on quality parts. I don't cheap out on anything. I have built thousands of systems for clients, and the problems are so rare that I've started including 5 year warranties with the systems for an extra $100.

And please. If the issues you're having are software related, I pity any customer that has to use your services. When I was 9 years old I accidentally formatted the main hard disk in an original Apple Mac Classic and I didn't have any restore disks. That is the one and only time I've had a serious software issue. Now thank you all for making me feel like an old fart here. Freaking Mac Classic. Jeesh I feel old.

 

[sapphirescales]

Yep, he just said 20 years with not a single issue from Windows. I'm guessing from at least Windows 95-Win 8.1

Actually technically it was MS-DOS to 10 Developer Preview. I skipped 3.1 entirely and didn't get 95 until 98 had already came out. I also (unfortunately) got straddled with Windows ME and skipped Windows 2000. I skipped Vista on all of my personal machines (I ran XP until 7 came out). It does help to skip the sh*tty releases.

 

[gunslinger]

A few things.

1. I'm still calling BS on the whole never having a single issue with any PC in 20 years crap.

2. You say Apple puts in low quality parts but then argue they are the same parts as any PC? Most of their parts seem to be made by samsung so blame them for making low quality parts...lol I personally don't see anything low quality about Macs and most ppl seem to agree.

3. You say Apple is an awful company. Most awful companies who treat their customers badly don't survive very long. Apple is by far the most valuable company on planet earth. Apparently they got something right. Just sayin.

 

[Markverhyden]

Apple is no different than any other company with the exception that they have been very, very successful over the last 10 years or so. And just like any other company they will have their ups and downs in all arenas, including finances, products and customer service. In the end it's their business to run as they see fit. So people can b!tch and moan all they want. Success always breeds contempt for the successful.

They have been no worse or better than other monopolistic companies and they are not a monopoly by any means. They will sue anybody for any reason just like M$ gladly will. In fact M$ has had way more anti-trust lawsuits than Apple over the years.

 

[gunslinger]

Apple is no different than any other company with the exception that they have been very, very successful over the last 10 years or so. And just like any other company they will have their ups and downs in all arenas, including finances, products and customer service. In the end it's their business to run as they see fit. So people can b!tch and moan all they want. Success always breeds contempt for the successful.

They have been no worse or better than other monopolistic companies and they are not a monopoly by any means. They will sue anybody for any reason just like M$ gladly will. In fact M$ has had way more anti-trust lawsuits than Apple over the years.

Exactly.