MAXIM chip failure - Repair or just replace motherboard?

[techpitt]

An old friend of mine stopped by my office today and dropped off a broken laptop that had been collecting dust in his basement. He didn't want it fixed, but was going to just throw it away and thought I might be able to use it for spare parts. I'd worked on the laptop before and diagnosed a faulty motherboard, and he opted to just buy a new laptop. That was before I learned about the Maxim chip that has caused so many problems in so many computers.

So now I'm faced with a decision:

1. just part the laptop (socket 478 generation).
2. purchase a new motherboard for $50~ and have a nice but old low-end laptop to keep or sell.
3. attempt to resolder the Maxim chip.

I have very little experience with soldering, but would like to gain some experience as it is a skill I would like to have. But then again, I don't have a lot of time or money to invest in practice and equipment at the moment. I found a PDF for sale ($27) that is titled "Toshiba m35 HP nc6000 Laptop Repair Manual" and promises to teach anyone how to fix the very issue I'm facing, but I'm a bit skeptical about whether or not it is worth purchasing.

What would you guys do? If you opt for #3, what would you suggest for a 'starter kit' for soldering? Anyone think the PDF would be worth buying?

 

[NYJimbo]

I would stop what you are doing and spend more time reading about fixing laptops before you go fixing your "maxim chip problem" with your "starter kit soldering tools" as you read your "$27 Toshiba m35 HP nc6000 Laptop Repair Manual" .

You are getting into something without having any idea of what you are doing. That's not an insult, you really are diving into something without really knowing what you are getting yourself into.

ps - I am assuming you have a "Toshiba m35 HP NC6000" that you want to repair ?

 

[techpitt]

You "misunderestimate" me, kind sir. I'll take on good faith your claim that you aren't trying to be offensive, despite the snarky p.s.

Just because I don't have a lot of experience with soldering does nnot mean i have no experience with PC/laptop repair. The laptop in question works fine so long as pressure is applied to the motherboard directly above a chip labeled 'maxim', which sits in close proximity to the DC jack. It will not power up otherwise, and the dc jack itself shows no signs of damage. This seems to corroborate the notion that lead fee solder on this chip has come loose. The PDF I mentioned contains pictures and instructions of the resolder process performed on a Toshiba M35X laptop (which I have) and presumably some HP laptop as well (maybe the same mmotherboard?)

Google is your friend. Spend some time with it and you'll find information on what I'm talking about. Then I'd be interestd to hear your opinion on whether or not attempting a resolder would be worthwhile rather than knee-slappers about my perceived lack of skill as a technician.

 

[NYJimbo]

I know what you are talking about, I have done the repair myself. Your first post said you have little experience soldering and you wanted to pay $27 for a manual, which if you googled a bit you would find the info for free. I think you should first do a bit more reading and watch some youtube videos on soldering before going out and buying a "starter" kit and work on that laptop. Perhaps get a dead motherboard and learn how to desolder packages like that before you do the actual board. I don't see any "knee slappers" in my post, do you ?

 

[Ccomp5950]

If you haven't soldered on a motherboard before, then you definitely should not do your first attempt on a live board someone is paying you to fix.

We're not trying to say "haw, look at this n00b". We're simply trying to help you from being in a position to have to tell the customer "well looks like the motherboard is going to have to be replaced" when a bit of practice and research may have saved you from that.

Take NYJimbo's advise, practice on a dead motherboard first.

Edit: You want to see "Knee Slappers" this is more like that: http://www.technibble.com/forums/showthread.php?p=312386 (Poor guy even posted in the wrong section...)

 

[compnet]

If you haven't soldered on a motherboard before, then you definitely should not do your first attempt on a live board someone is paying you to fix.

AHe didn't want it fixed, but was going to just throw it away and thought I might be able to use it for spare parts.

Anyways.. chips aren't a starting point for soldering.. You'll either burn the new chip out, bridge the solder, cold solder, etc.. its not going to work.. Don't waste your 27 dollars, don't wast money on start soldering kits.. If you want to learn how to solder, get a good kit, don't buy a pdf, practice on easy stuff and work your way up.

 

[Ccomp5950]

Oops, apparently I missed that part. -1 Internet for me.

 

[techpitt]

Thanks for clarifying, jimbo. You're a prolific poster here and, honestly, I had a bit of an emotional response when I first read your post. If you re-read it, and note the copious quotation marks and lack of advice other than "stop, you dont know what you're doing; rtfm", you might see how I assumed you were poking fun at my lack of experience with soldering as if i had a lack of experience in general.

In any event, this IS a non-functioning motherboard for me to learn with. I got it for free. It is disposable yet provides me with some incentive to learn rather than aimlessly desoldering and resoldering crap. ( : I have other broken old boards to practice technique with, but nothing else worth repairing really. I know I could learn to build an atomic bomb if i spent enough time on Google and really wanted to, but I have twin 2 year olds, a full time day job, and not much assistance with anything so if a $27 document can tell me what I need to buy and do to repair maxim issues, it could be a worthy investment.

I guess my original question could be reworded as:

Is this whole maxim repair a worthy skill to acquire, or would a functional single core laptop be more valuable? I've read more than a little on Google about the task, but would value any input on good sources of instruction and/or suggestions for equipment a component level repair novice would need to get started on this particular task. I'm not asking anyone to spoon feed me, but as this is the 'tech to tech' forum, I was hoping for more than a sign shaped like a finger that reads "Google". ( :

 

[techpitt]

Thanks for the input everyone, and sorry if i misinterpreted your tone, Jimbo. I've Google'd and Youtube'd the subject in the past and will definitely take more than a few practice runs before trying the maxim. I'd still appreciate any links to good educational reources for the beginner, and suggestions for inexpensive equipment for someone who is serious. I can go on newegg and buy a $20 iron with some tips, but will that even come close to being useful? At the same time, I'm hoping to avoid the $200 irons if that is overkill.

I guess the answer to my initial question is to just replace the motherboard and sell the laptop to finance the purchase of soldering equipment so i can learn and practice and turn the next free laptop around for more profit. Lol

P.s. the keyboard on my phone is wretched! Sorry for slow replies and typos.

 

[codegreen]

I guess the answer to my initial question is to just replace the motherboard and sell the laptop to finance the purchase of soldering equipment so i can learn and practice and turn the next free laptop around for more profit. Lol

If you think you can get some cash for it, then sure. But really, I'm not sure why people are telling you not to attempt the soldering. No, it's not the best beginner project, but this is a laptop that would have been thrown away. At worst, you ruin a free, broken laptop and have a learning experience. It's not as if you're doing this for a customer!

Anyway, here are a couple of soldering resources I recommend:

Soldering is Easy: a good introduction to soldering in the form of a comic book. This was posted on the forums earlier.

Curious Inventor's How to Solder Correctly: an excellent detailed guide with text and videos. Includes sections on selecting tools and solder.

Good luck!

 

[techpitt]

Edit: You want to see "Knee Slappers" this is more like that: http://www.technibble.com/forums/showthread.php?p=312386 (Poor guy even posted in the wrong section...)

Lol... How'd I miss that one?

 

[NYJimbo]

This laptop is too old to really put any money into it, I see them for sale for under $100 working on ebay and not many takers. If you just want to get a cheap iron and see if that can work, it might, but really take some time to watch videos on either how this job is done or how to work with surface mount chips.

There are alot of idiots on youtube who post videos of them "fixing" something and you can see what a bad job they do or they "fix" it and then you dont see the final result. Try to watch how chips similiar to this one are worked by professionals. It's easy to damage the pads and traces or short pins together and that could kill more than just the chip.

Search this forum for threads on soldering for more info.

 

[Larry Sabo]

Soldering irons are virtually useless for MB repairs (unless you also use ChipQuik or an alternative to lower the solder melting temperature). You need to melt solder on all contacts simultaneously to remove the package, which is not normally feasible with just an iron. What you want is a hot air rework station, which will heat up the MB and the solder all together so you can just lift the part off the MB once the solder reaches the melting point. Some Maxim chips are in QFN packaging, which can be daunting to replace, given their size. Here's a YouTube video on how to replace them. Since the MB in question is already useless, you have nothing to lose. Nevertheless, practice your technique on scrap boards until you feel confident you can replace that chip without killing it or the MB. The hot air station will also serve you well for DC jack repairs.

 

[tek9]

+1 for hot air station.
I'm just learning how to solder and I've tried with a cheap iron and was getting nowhere. I decided, since I'm hoping to make some money off soldering in the future, it would be wise to spend a bit and get a good hot air station. I bought the Aoyue 968A+...... What a difference! The DC jacks just fall right off!
Amazing! I couldn't be happier!
Just my .02....

 

[Rob_NNCC]

+1 for a hot air station. FIIIILLLLEEERRRR.

 

[ComputerRepairTech]

Do any of you soldering guys have unsteady hands? If so how do you do it? I was wondering if there was some sort of flexing arm or something you may use.

 

[NYJimbo]

Soldering irons are virtually useless for MB repairs (unless you also use Chip Quick or an alternative to lower the solder melting temperature)

+1 Big fan of Chip Quik/Bismuth. I use it for all small packages, TSOPS or when I am working with jacks the many pins where I can't introduce hot air. Same when there is too much plastic in the hot air blast area.

 

[techpitt]

Now we're getting somewhere! I appreciate all of the information.

If you think you can get some cash for it, then sure.

This laptop is too old to really put any money into it, I see them for sale for under $100 working on ebay and not many takers.

Normally I'd be inclined to agree, but at the very bottom of my box-o-parts is a 2 GHz Pentium M, some RAM, and an old 80 GB IDE HDD that all fit this laptop and are upgrades over stock. At the moment there are many lesser equipped M35X's under Ebay's completed auctions listing that have sold for $120-150 before shipping. Not going to retire on the profit by any means, but to me it does offer a nice reward incentive for learning a new skill, and with school starting back up I'm sure I could easily sell it to a university student who just needs MS Word and web browsing.

Anyway, here are a couple of soldering resources...

Awesome. Bookmarked those sites. Seems from everyone's reaction, the $27 PDF is not a viable shortcut to learning soldering, so I appreciate being pointed in the right direction. Definitely going to devour these free resources.

There are alot of idiots on youtube who post videos of them "fixing" something and you can see what a bad job they do or they "fix" it and then you dont see the final result. Try to watch how chips similiar to this one are worked by professionals.

Very true. I've seen some interesting techniques, such as taking a blowtorch to a heat sink for reflowing!

Soldering irons are virtually useless for MB repairs (unless you also use ChipQuik or an alternative to lower the solder melting temperature).

+1 for hot air station.
I'm just learning how to solder and I've tried with a cheap iron and was getting nowhere... I bought the Aoyue 968A+.... Amazing! I couldn't be happier!

Building my shopping cart now! The Aoyue 968A+ is exactly what I was hoping to find- all the tools a beginner would need in an affordable package.

Definitely feel like I have a game plan for learning a new skill, now. Can't wait to get started!

 

[techpitt]

Already playing with my new toy and it just arrived today! Poor old practice boards... the things I do to you!

So for the Maxim chip that started this thread, I'm thinking of just reflowing it. I know that is the cheap lazy way and probably won't be permanent, but it seems to be the easiest way and I need some wins under my belt to keep me going. If I end up selling the laptop, it likely won't be until I'm comfortable enough to properly resolder the chip using leaded paste or other techniques I'm reading about.

Any thoughts on that? Reflowing vs. resoldering? This particular laptop had heat issues that were caused by Geek Squad's annual maintenance (you know, where they disconnect the exhaust fan and leave it that way)... with the fan reconnected the board won't be subjected to so much heat. That being the case, would anyone trust a reflow as a permanent solution?

 

[Larry Sabo]

Is the Maxim chip a BGA? I'd be surprised. If it's not, reflowing won't fix a thing.