"The Free Antivirus Thread"

I love ESET... If I were going to pay for an AV or recommend a paid AV, it would be ESET. Unless, of course, I was a reseller for a different product.

That being said, I'm using Avast on everything I use personally (including my phone). It's stupid easy to use, like someone else mentioned it is a perfect "set it and forget it" tool. I also find the "Avast virus definitions have been updated" sound & pop-up to be very comforting, LOL. It is a little annoying in the setup to deal with the repeated nags to buy the paid version, but as far as customers are concerned, they never see that. I've also never had Avast fail me, and I've gone to some pretty questionable websites and intentionally gone to some that both Chrome and OpenDNS told me not to visit... Avast blocked everything every time.
My only machine that doesn't have Avast is my server. That box is running MSE. Stonecat mentioned that MSE does not run on Windows Server, however that's not accurate. It does, in fact, run perfectly well on Windows Server 2k8 (I can't say for 2k3). I think the distinction is that it is not supported on Windows Server. But... supported or not, if you're looking at a server without an AV, and a client who doesn't want to pay for a server AV... MSE will install and function just fine, and as someone said, that's better than no AV at all.

Now, as for customer machines... I'm a little torn between Avast and MSE.
MSE is the ultimate "set it and forget it" AV as Stonecat has pointed out, not requiring a yearly renewal. It's also got the benefit of being "Microsoft" and for Joe Customer who doesn't know squat about computers, he might find comfort in the familiar brand.
But it's not as effective as Avast. If Avast didn't require the yearly renewal I probably wouldn't even consider MSE. What I love about Avast is the ability to customize the installation. That's come in handy for one particular customer who's situation I'll describe in a sec. For the average customer, I'm pretty comfortable recommending Avast, and if they don't have an AV (or have an ineffective AV) that is what I install for them. If the customer was a complete idiot though, I'd probably give 'em MSE just for the idiot-proof-ness.

There is one problem that I've run across with Avast, and this would apply to both free and paid versions. I'm curious if anyone else has experienced this, so if so please chime in!
I have a business client, a Buy-Here Pay-Here car lot... they run a simple workgroup network of store-bought computers and a Linksys router. [I'd upgrade them, but they don't want to spend the money]. They run a couple different industry-specific applications to manage their business along with Quickbooks for the accounting. Their applications all use some form of database, and all of the databases (including QB company file) are located on computer A, with computers B & C configured to access the files stored on computer A. Everything ran just fine for them until I installed Avast on all their computers (they were previously unprotected.) After that, everything worked, but their apps were incredibly slow to load the databases. It took me a while to pinpoint the cause, but it turned out that Avast's "Behavior Shield" was the culprit. Once I disabled the behavior shield, everything worked perfectly. Ever since then, when I install Avast for business clients who use databases I always customize the install and choose to NOT install the behavior shield.
(I feel like I rambled on that... sorry guys, lol)
 
Actually I use Avast for residential customers who don't want a paid solution. I usually try to at least get them to use Malwarebytes alongside it.

However, for business clients who have a setup as just described above and on a tight budget I use Microsoft Security Essentials in place of Avast simply because using the free version of Avast in a business environment violates their Eula.
Also, you need a yearly subscription for Malwarebytes in a business environment.
 
I'm amazed at home many of you guys put your trust in MSE. Its not a good AV. Never has been.

Because when it came out on the market...it performed very well.
Links for proof...
http://www.av-test.org/no_cache/en/tests/test-reports/?tx_avtestreports_pi1[report_no]=102237

And the best test of any antivirus benchmarks.....real world dynamics tests by AV-Comparatives
http://www.av-comparatives.org/images/docs/avc_prot_200912_en.pdf

Backing that up is an incredibly large number of situations that I see myself. When I used to use other freebies...my friends/family/neighbors would still call with infections. When I started using MSE, the amount of repeat calls I got went way down. Since these are "freebie jobs" I do for friends/family/neighbors...I do not want these phone calls, so I will use whatever cuts these down. Nor in a year when their license expires from some other product.
 
Stonecat mentioned that MSE does not run on Windows Server, however that's not accurate. It does, in fact, run perfectly well on Windows Server 2k8 (I can't say for 2k3). I think the distinction is that it is not supported on Windows Server. But... supported or not, if you're looking at a server without an AV, and a client who doesn't want to pay for a server AV... MSE will install and function just fine, and as someone said, that's better than no AV at all.


It also is unique among the other offerings as being the only "free antivirus" that is licensed to be used in a busines....currently of up to 10x computers. Desktops only, no server operating systems.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/security-essentials-download

When I mentioned MSE on a server...it was regarding licensing. It is licensed by Microsoft only to be used on a desktop operating system. I will not abuse Microsofts licensing. Ignoring their licensing is a notch below pirating. Some may argue that it actually IS pirating.

But I will not be caught with my pants down doing bad things on clients servers.

Similar reasons I won't use other free AV products for business clients...they are licensed only for home users. (some add non-profit orgs). I do have some small small business clients that don't like to pay for an AV. So far, MSE is the only option for them.

Beyond the licensing thing, it is important (to me at least ) to only use products that are officially supported with another product. For a server operating system, running active directory, other infrastructure services like DNS and DHCP, and possible database engines like SQL and Exchange and others...it's very very important to use an antivirus that was certified on that platform. Antivirus engines have to behave differently on a server. The file extension types and directories that they must keep their nose out of, their performance when working with other files....all you want maximum stability on a server. What if you had to call Microsoft support for some customers server that went belly up...and they easy assist remote in...and you're found with MSE on the server? Heh..."whoops". I'm not going to risk my Microsoft Partner status over something like this.
 
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I'm amazed at home many of you guys put your trust in MSE. Its not a good AV. Never has been.

A quick google search brings up these recent links:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Micr...ails-AV-Test-Loses-Certification-310715.shtml

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/40505533

I do recall the detection rate of MSE being as bad as 67% a couple years ago,

Yet...according to you....statistics from reviews are useless. Let me link this thread,
http://www.technibble.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33459
someone puts links up to some AV-comparative reviews showing their product at 99.something%...and you debunk it.

Yet up above a page or so, you expect us to believe your links? Which one is it...are reviews good (in which case why did you attempt to debunk his links) Or are reviews useless...in which case, why did you post those links above?

....Hrrrmmmmm? Can't have it both ways!
 
Yet...according to you....statistics from reviews are useless. Let me link this thread,
http://www.technibble.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33459
someone puts links up to some AV-comparative reviews showing their product at 99.something%...and you debunk it.

Yet up above a page or so, you expect us to believe your links? Which one is it...are reviews good (in which case why did you attempt to debunk his links) Or are reviews useless...in which case, why did you post those links above?

....Hrrrmmmmm? Can't have it both ways!

lol one 'good' review doth not a good AV make :D

I can find a 'review' out there probably for every AV known to man that says its the best but is it?

And I didn't 'debunk' Norton in the other thread - I simply said its rubbish software despite the links he provided because it is - based not on its detection rate (which in fact is quite good) but on its overall user-friendliness, use of resources, ability to remove viruses, etc. For example, have you ever had to upgrade Norton? It can be a nightmare. Symantec actually has a 'removal tool' available on their site just so you can uninstall it - What fun!

In my opinion MSE is rubbish and I base that on numerous reports/tests over the years that indicate just that. I point this out in the hope I am helping some users make a better choice for their customers. But if people refuse to take my advice thats fine too. :)

Edit: And in summary from one of my links above:

"Microsoft’s anti-virus application has achieved a detection rate of 69 percent in September and 64 percent in October for protection against 0-day malware attacks, including web and email threats. The industry average is 89 percent, so Security Essentials wasn’t even close to the other products on the market". http://news.softpedia.com- November 29th, 2012, 11:58 GMT

Nuff said..
 
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When I mentioned MSE on a server...it was regarding licensing. It is licensed by Microsoft only to be used on a desktop operating system. I will not abuse Microsofts licensing. Ignoring their licensing is a notch below pirating. Some may argue that it actually IS pirating.

But I will not be caught with my pants down doing bad things on clients servers.

Similar reasons I won't use other free AV products for business clients...they are licensed only for home users. (some add non-profit orgs). I do have some small small business clients that don't like to pay for an AV. So far, MSE is the only option for them.

Beyond the licensing thing, it is important (to me at least ) to only use products that are officially supported with another product. For a server operating system, running active directory, other infrastructure services like DNS and DHCP, and possible database engines like SQL and Exchange and others...it's very very important to use an antivirus that was certified on that platform. Antivirus engines have to behave differently on a server. The file extension types and directories that they must keep their nose out of, their performance when working with other files....all you want maximum stability on a server. What if you had to call Microsoft support for some customers server that went belly up...and they easy assist remote in...and you're found with MSE on the server? Heh..."whoops". I'm not going to risk my Microsoft Partner status over something like this.


Agreed, it's not exactly on the up and up.
 
If Avast gets rid of the annoying yearly renewal, and if they improve their known high false positive rate...I'll open them for consideration. ..nuff said.

Yeah, the false positives are a bit annoying for me especially... every time I plug in my USB full of tools, Avast want's to flag and delete something. Had to configure it to ignore them. That being said, haven't noticed much in the way of false positives that didn't involve my tech tools.
 
Yeah, the false positives are a bit annoying for me especially... every time I plug in my USB full of tools, Avast want's to flag and delete something. Had to configure it to ignore them. That being said, haven't noticed much in the way of false positives that didn't involve my tech tools.

Huge thing last summer where it affected people that used "Steam" for their online gaming. Basically killed anyones (who used Avast) gaming ability for a day or two.

There was something 2 maybe 3 years ago where it deleted a critical Windows system file during bootup....this was a lethal false positive. Made for a really fun couple of days replacing those files on unbootable systems. Very time consuming for a computer guy...and when we're using an AV for "friends/family/neighbors" freebie jobs...guess what..I do not want to own that problem and volunteer my time in fixing those. Nope! Huge disqualification here.
 
For the technically challenged people I deal with, here is what I do.

Put on MSE - easy to use and good enough with a sandbox.

Put on and install Sandboxie....the paid version, if you don't want nagged.
Although the free version works well, I felt it works so well, I buy a license for a one time charge.

Configure it correctly for their use.

Now when you get the call that MSE has detected a virus, or they say "funny" things are happening. Just tell them to close down their computer and restart. Sanboxie has been configured to empty on closing, so when they re-start, they are good to go. On a few occasions, you may need to instruct them to empty the sandbox manually.

So easy, I even have my sister doing it and she knows NOTHING about computers.

Currently, I run Sandboxie on all my home machines and have NEVER had I virus that wasn't removed by emptying the sandbox.

I'm afraid it's going to start to put a hurt on my Virus removal business, so I only use it on "freebies" or "problem" clients.

Very activley developed and updated.
Link below.

http://www.sandboxie.com/

Exactly what I do pretty much!
 
Huge thing last summer where it affected people that used "Steam" for their online gaming. Basically killed anyones (who used Avast) gaming ability for a day or two.

There was something 2 maybe 3 years ago where it deleted a critical Windows system file during bootup....this was a lethal false positive. Made for a really fun couple of days replacing those files on unbootable systems. Very time consuming for a computer guy...and when we're using an AV for "friends/family/neighbors" freebie jobs...guess what..I do not want to own that problem and volunteer my time in fixing those. Nope! Huge disqualification here.

Wow, that is huge. Thanks for the heads up!
 
I can confirm that MSSE was a good AV for a while but can also confirm that towards the middle of last year I noticed the detection rates going down which I posted about: http://www.technibble.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39214 . Lets not forget though there was a time period when microsoft was doing an excellent job catching TDSS/Alureon where even kaspersky was failing to do so.

As for the server remark I am like 99% sure at some point MSSE would not install on windows 2003. I know this because I tested rising on my server around that time period and it would be a cold day in hell before I test rising if MSSE would install.

I was not aware of that issue mentioned with Avast behavior shield I will certainly give that a try should I encounter a similar situation. When I install Avast for people I only install File System Shield, Behavior Shield, Script Shield.
 
Just wanted to throw THIS article into the mix as its very recent and is a fairly comprehensive list of the available options currently, if anyone is interested to read.

Many there I had not heard of...
 
McAfee is a virus...

Agreed.

Two epic fails in the last couple of years - one corporate, the other on their home user product*. They suck ass. Would not go near it with a barge pole.

*I actually got a few jobs 'fixing' computers from this, so I guess I should thank them for having such abysmal quality control of their updates :)

.
 
For those that use MSE, do you see an increase in calls for infections recently? Are your clients getting hit more often now?

It's hard to go by raw numbers because I mostly see machines with MSE, AVG, or out of date Norton or McAfee. I rarely see Kaspersky or anything else on clients machines, regardless of the reason for the call.
 
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