Would you take a Coronavirus Vaccine

[callthatgirl]

@britechguy Forcing them to get vaxxed is my opinion. Not a fact.

 

[britechguy]

So open the door wide up, why can't they force vaccines? Everyone else in the US is getting fired for not getting them, so why are the Haitians free to come in unvaxxed? It's easy, force the rules.

This is what you said, verbatim. Your final statement says, "force the rules." That's a fact.

And the fact I pointed out, and others have now also done so, is that these rules you'd like us to force do not exist at present. And I elaborated that I would like to see them come into existence and believe that they must.

And it is an incontrovertible fact, if you watch, listen to, and read the news from multiple sources that it is the Trumpist right that is fighting vaccine mandates with every bit of vigor they can muster. Yes, the anti-vax left is, too, but the left (such as this country has) has never had any real political power in this country. What the right wing calls left wing these days is what the rest of the world calls centrist to center right. The conservative parties in every major western democracy we call an ally are to the left of the Republican party in the USA. And the Republican Party is, at this moment, the Trump Republican Party.

At least have the decency to own what you have clearly said. And what you said is at disconnect from what actually exists.

 

[nlinecomputers]

At least have the decency to own what you have clearly said. And what you said is at disconnect from what actually exists.

This

Unpopular opinion but the truth
This whole country is going down the drain because of forced vaccine mandates.

This seems to imply you prefer no vaccine mandates.

Unpopular opinion but the truth
Current administration is allowing 1000's of unvaxxed in the country. Who's idea was that? Not Trumps.

And this is critical of allowing refugees and immigrants, legal or illegal, in without vaccines.

I'm sorry but which view do you support? Mandates or not? Oh I get it, it's mandates just for "them" not you.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@callthatgirl

There is no "mandate".

The Haitians would be subject to the same rules as everyone else. The government isn't requiring the vaccine, EMPLOYERS are because their insurance vendors are saying "you make your people do this, or your rates go up." This would be the market speaking, and is generally understood to be the freedom answer to the problem.

Which means anyone illegal or otherwise that wants employment is going to be up against that reality. Technically speaking, it's already equally enforced.

But this is also why I said it's all a hard sell. I'm suffering personally, how do I grow my business when I cannot go out and shake hands without risking at the very least, two weeks of pure hell trying to keep two boys out of the ER that's full?

I appreciate every single person that gets their vaccine for COVID personally. Because of each and every one of them that does, that means fewer people in the ER so the medical resources there are available for my boys should my ability to keep them out of the ER fail.

Which again I have to risk just to go shake a single hand. And as a son of two retired US veterans, I was raised to serve and protect. My mask, and that shot are my rifle and supply kit. I feel it's my solemn responsibility as a citizen to protect and serve, so I did. Those that do not perplex me, frustrate me, and hurt me financially.

I'm a very thin line of commitment and frustration away from treating anyone that gets in my face about all this as if they're holding a gun to my sons' heads. Which several members of my family have understood, and left my life over because they're Trump thumpers so hard they can't see daylight and yet I hit them right in the service jacket... That dissonance has removed them from my life. Yay?

As for immigration, both parties want an easily exploited underclass to keep labor rates down. Which is exactly how undocumented migrants are treated today. This has been this way my entire life, and has existed far longer. Again, I live in Arizona... it's rather local and unavoidable here. This state wouldn't exist if not for "illegal" labor. Operation Wetback, along with a ton of other horrible policies.

 

[britechguy]

I'm sorry but which view do you support?

Indeed. All of the text has clear, and unavoidable subtext associated with it. And at times even the text and subtext are at odds.

Articulating a clear position is seldom achieved with what amount to sound bites. And all the more so when the various sound bites conflict between each other and sometimes within each other.

 

[callthatgirl]

@nlinecomputers @britechguy you guys are ridiculous.

 

[nlinecomputers]

@nlinecomputers @britechguy you guys are ridiculous.

You are welcome to clarify your stance.

 

[callthatgirl]

@nlinecomputers just trying to be in the discussion, not interested in getting attacked or having to defend my opinion. Cya.

 

[britechguy]

just trying to be in the discussion, not interested in getting attacked or having to defend my opinion.

Those two things are diametrically opposed.

You can't be part of a discussion by issuing drive by proclamations and refusing to give any rationale for them when asked. And asking for rationale is not an attack.

If you have a rationale then state it. If you don't, then your contributions have been given way more than their due consideration, and have been dismissed as wanting.

 

[VISA MC]

I’ve said for a long time, this is not about the health and safety of our citizens. I don’t know what it’s about and don’t have time nor the will to look up all of the tinfoil hat conspiracies.

To those saying there is no mandate, you are technically correct. I don’t think too many of us on this board have north of 100 employees, but if you have done the reading, the fine for an unvaccinated staff member is $700,000.

Biden’s Vax Mandate To Be Enforced By Fining Companies $70,000 To $700,000?

Did House dems sneak in an OSHA provision to enforce Biden's vax mandate?

www.forbes.com

I don’t know of a single company willing to pay almost 3/4 of a million dollars just to keep an employee. So a mandate? No. Our own governments willingness to bankrupt businesses over it. Yes. I’m sure there will be lawsuits back and forth and whether or not they actually choose to enforce it, but the fact that they felt the need to increase those fines 10 fold….

Also look at the Canadian border currently. For a US citizen to go to Canada, they can show proof of a vaccine and drive across. BUT. (Remember, in the interest of public health) for a Canadian to come to the US they cannot drive across in their own personal car. They must go to an airport and cram into an airplane with a couple of hundred other people all within 1 foot of each other, depending on where they are going, they will then get off the airplane, walk through a second airport, get back onto an airplane and fly to their destination. Much safer right?

Kind of like what @callthatgirl was saying- if this was truly about the health and safety of the public, we would either 1) close the border down or 2) offer those who are crossing an expedited method for obtaining the vaccine. I’ll go as far as to say an expedited path to citizenship. I would venture to say that if it were easy and quick, nobody would skip it and risk running from the law for the rest of their lives. Give them the shot, make them safe and keep us safe.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@VISA MC Occam's Razor my friend... Occam's Razor.

Our government is run by a bunch of lawyers, they don't know jack about anything other than twisting words. So we shouldn't be shocked when the policies don't make any sort of cohesive sense. Furthermore I have yet to see an administration of Federal government that actually cares about actual consistency.

But you're right, we could have closed our borders entirely while Trump was still in office and contained this a fair bit. But that didn't happen, and we're long past any containment even being possible via isolation.

But regardless, incompetence is very much the norm.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Part of the problem is that we have a truly devided government. The Federal Government is NOT all powerful. Authority is decided between three branches of government, two political parties and 50 States. Plus every megacorporation and their army of bribery armed lobbyists. Then you add on top the fact that the United States have distinct cultures that truly value different things and political and media forces that deliberately push their buttons.

It's a wonder you get anything done.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Worth reading if you want to understand all the different cultures of the United States and why they think like they do.

American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America - Kindle edition by Woodard, Colin. Politics & Social Sciences Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America - Kindle edition by Woodard, Colin. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading American Nations: A History of...

www.amazon.com

 

[cyabro]

Back to the original topic.
I’ve now had both my shots of the Pfizer vaccine (our only option here in New Zealand), as has my wife and oldest son (13).
My youngest son (10) wants to but his age group hasn’t been approved yet.
Our government has just mandated that all health workers, teachers and early childhood educators must be vaccinated.
I think they have to do this because of all the misinformation on social media.

 

[Skyhooker]

I've been away from the forum for a long time, and this was the first topic that caught my eye. I don't want to get involved in the battle that seems to be ongoing here, so to plainly answer the OP's original question, after carefully considering both sides for months now, and weighing the risks versus the benefits, no, I will not willingly take any of these injections.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I've been away from the forum for a long time, and this was the first topic that caught my eye. I don't want to get involved in the battle that seems to be ongoing here, so to plainly answer the OP's original question, after carefully considering both sides for months now, and weighing the risks versus the benefits, no, I will not willingly take any of these injections.

Honest serious question. What do you really think is going to happen to you if you took the vaccine? What is WORSE than a disease that can kill you in days on a ventilator?

 

[alluseridsrejected]

Honest serious question. What do you really think is going to happen to you if you took the vaccine? What is WORSE than a disease that can kill you in days on a ventilator?

Personally, when I see a narrative and agenda being pushed and highly qualified doctors and specialists being censored,attacked and deplatformed, it makes me think I am being fed a bunch of BS. I have always believed the best way to convince people on a subject is a free and open exchange of ideas. Every idea from the most valid to the most crack pot, allowing everyone to hear all sides and make their own decision what is best for them. We used to have that in this country. We no longer do. Opposing views are being censored. The MSM has been caught in lie after lie and are guilty of their own conspiracy theories. When you have nothing but lies and biases in the media, you no longer have anyone to trust. Everything then becomes a conspiracy.

Watch a few videos from this small sampling of doctors that are not to be found on youtube:
Vladimir Zelenko, Michael Yeadon, Roger Hodkinson, Wolfgang Wodard, Suneel Dhand, Peter McCullough, Robert F. Kennedy JR, Magnus Burling, Robert Malone

You will have to go places like odysee, bitchute and rumble to find them.

I hope these doctors are wrong, but with the current censorship, who is to say?

 

[nlinecomputers]

Vladimir Zelenko. This is the dude who is illegally treating patients with a three-drug cocktail he claimed on a recorded Zoom conference was FDA-approved treatment. He blatantly lied and started backtracking when a Federal prosecutor served up a warrant. He's a fraud who is going to end up in jail as I expect most of your list is.

 

[Skyhooker]

Honest serious question. What do you really think is going to happen to you if you took the vaccine? What is WORSE than a disease that can kill you in days on a ventilator?

What do you really think is going to happen to you if you took the vaccine?

I don't know. No one does. These products are too new, and the long-term effects are unknown; the clinical trials are not over. The reported short-term effects are serious enough that I don't want to take the chance of putting a substance in my body that can never be removed, and can alter my genetic code, and whose effect on my own body is uncertain.

What is WORSE than a disease that can kill you in days on a ventilator?

"Can kill you" is not the same as Will kill you. Also, the chances of it killing you are very low, whereas the chances of having an untested substance with uncertain effects in my body permanently after taking the injection are 100%. I own my own body, and all decisions regarding it are, by right, my own. I choose to forego these treatments.

For context, my best friend died on a ventilator less than a month ago. He got pneumonia and was put on Remdesivir, a new drug that, from reports I have read since then, can cause kidney failure, leading to pulmonary edema - fluid building up in the alveoli, the tissues in the lungs that absorb oxygen. I believe there is a very good chance this treatment contributed to or hastened his death.

So I know the risks. Even so, I still choose not to take these injections.

 

[alluseridsrejected]

Vladimir Zelenko. This is the dude who is illegally treating patients with a three-drug cocktail he claimed on a recorded Zoom conference was FDA-approved treatment. He blatantly lied and started backtracking when a Federal prosecutor served up a warrant. He's a fraud who is going to end up in jail as I expect most of your list is.

Well then maybe you should be speaking out loudly against censorship so other doctors could post a rebuttal video to his videos (that are not deleted off youtube) where people can hear both sides of the story. He may or may not be wrong but like I said, in this censored environment I am not going to listen to the popular narrative being fed to me.