Would you take a Coronavirus Vaccine

[Sky-Knight]

Unpopular opinion but the truth
Current administration is allowing 1000's of unvaxxed in the country. Who's idea was that? Not Trumps.

No, his idea was the same as Obama's... which includes walling them up on the otherside of the border, and when that didn't work stuffing them into chain link boxes and leaving them to die from all sorts of things.

There is no good answer for the refugee problem's on our Southern border, and I'm honestly tired of people whining about it. The Haitian refugees in particular represent a huge problem.

Now, anyone that gets caught or goes through the proper channels is going into quarantine, so whatever on that side.

 

[callthatgirl]

So a great idea would be to force them all to get the vaccine before being allowed in. I'm not against them coming but they have to play by the same rules. Am I wrong? Or do they get a pass?

 

[Sky-Knight]

So a great idea would be to force them all to get the vaccine before being allowed in. I'm not against them coming but they have to play by the same rules. Am I wrong? Or do they get a pass?

How? And for the record, we don't force vaccinations on anyone that enters the nation currently. We don't even require vaccination to do air travel in all states. This is part of the reason some Federal standards would be nice.

But when you're referring to a large mass of people that thumb their nose at the law so much they just walk into the country exactly what interface are you going to use to for them to do anything? Once arrested sure, we can do stuff. But those that don't are simply here, like everyone else vanished among the population.

*Edit*

New Vaccination Criteria for U.S. Immigration | CDC

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about the Final Rule posting that revises vaccination criteria for aliens (immigrants, refugees, asylees, and parolees) before admitted into the United States

www.cdc.gov

I stand corrected, there are Federally required vaccines to immigrate, and they haven't changed since 2009... so no COVID shot required to come here at least per the Feds.

 

[callthatgirl]

This is where building more walls in the areas they are coming in from and hiring more border agents would have been good. It can be controlled, it's not being controlled. I am trying to find out how many came in so far this year compared to 2020. I know it's out of control.

 

[britechguy]

Unpopular opinion but the truth
Current administration is allowing 1000's of unvaxxed in the country. Who's idea was that? Not Trumps.

But it also happened during Trump's presidency. And we all know who is being made reference to (and they couldn't be vaccinated even if they had desperately desired to be so).

 

[britechguy]

So a great idea would be to force them all to get the vaccine before being allowed in. I'm not against them coming but they have to play by the same rules. Am I wrong? Or do they get a pass?

The problem is, and has been, the way we handle immigration, and that's been the case for decades. People who are fleeing anywhere because they fear for their lives and their children's lives, regardless of the reason, are never going to be overly concerned about the laws of where they're fleeing to. And when the laws of where they're fleeing to condemn them, for all practical intents and purposes, to be forcibly returned to what they're fleeing, they will go underground. And they have been doing that for decades because our immigration laws do not make it easy to immigrate legally.

The United States is not, and never has been, "flooded with more immigrants than we can handle." We choose not to handle them in a reasonable way, and a way that would allow for much greater control and oversight of the process, by pretending that there is any meaningful way to prevent land crossings along either of our major land borders (though no one will deny that the southern one is the one where most are coming in).

It's another case of burying our heads in the sand and making problems worse, not better, by refusing to do the right, as well as useful, thing. "Those people" are coming and will continue coming. We either have the choice to continue with the status quo, which we know the problems with, or actually change immigration law and procedures to deal with it.

All signs are that we'll stupidly stick with the status quo.

 

[Sky-Knight]

This is where building more walls in the areas they are coming in from and hiring more border agents would have been good. It can be controlled, it's not being controlled. I am trying to find out how many came in so far this year compared to 2020. I know it's out of control.

I live in AZ, and I've frequently visited the AZ / NM border with Mexico...

There is no wall, no artificial barrier, NOTHING we can build that can secure that mess. It's an ever shifting and changing mass of gravel and sand with no water. The entire reason that area was chosen as the border between our two nations is specifically because it was an impassible, unlivable mess that neither nation wanted.

But in 2021 the technology available to even poverty stricken refugees lets them simply walk in. That isn't to say they don't still die by the buckets, much like the Cuban refugees rafting into Florida, but it still happens.

We already have barriers in all the places it makes sense to have them. Trump's propaganda not withstanding, our Border Patrol knows its business, and is doing the best that is possible short of airborne extermination.

As for sensible immigration policies... and the nature of this conversation I invite you to read this: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46550/the-new-colossus

It was written to fund the Pedastal the Statue of Liberty stands on, and remains the most effective words to paper I've ever read that describe the purpose and glory of these United States. I invite you to compare these words to your views on this subject.

 

[britechguy]

It can be controlled, it's not being controlled.

Indeed it can be controlled, but not by the means you propose. And we're completely in agreement that, as things stand, it's not being controlled.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Indeed it can be controlled, but not by the means you propose. And we're completely in agreement that, as things stand, it's not being controlled.

Oh it's being "controlled" via concentration camp...

And we can do the isolationist thing... we can. But it requires illegal entry to be made into a capital crime, to be enforced with lethal power, and our military to be deployed to commit mass murder on the border.

Which in regards to the Haitian Refugees is something to think about because the Dominican Republic uses these very tactics on their border FOR A REASON. You can see the differences between the Dominican Republic, and Haiti from ORBIT. Seriously, go look at Google Maps.

These people are poor for a reason, and it will take some SERIOUS indoctrination efforts to reform them into something resembling a proper citizen.

Meanwhile, we can't provide a decent education for our own people! So I feel CatGirl's drive here... I'm a military brat, it drives me UP A WALL to see so many spit on the sacrifices of my family and countless others to just beat down the back door as if the US owes everyone else on the planet a safe place to live. WE DO NOT!

But I temper that voice with the knowledge that we can be better, we're "not full", and we have more room to grow our economy with more labor. But it's all a very hard sell while our middle class dies under the poorly implemented controls of this pandemic amplifying generations of terrible fiscal policy. Terrible fiscal policy that's the fault of BOTH parties, so we the people have no one to vote for that makes it better.

 

[nlinecomputers]

This is where building more walls in the areas they are coming in from and hiring more border agents would have been good. It can be controlled, it's not being controlled. I am trying to find out how many came in so far this year compared to 2020. I know it's out of control.

Walls don't help when they walk up to the immigration station was AND ASK for refugee status. The Haitian refugees were not caught sneaking in. They were let in because that's what you do as good moral people.

 

[callthatgirl]

@nlinecomputers Sounds like the root of the problem isn't even being looked at, why are they coming here. Kamala is in hiding as is her boss. They could stand up and deal with this.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Oh it's being "controlled" via concentration camp...

And we can do the isolationist thing... we can. But it requires illegal entry to be made into a capital crime, to be enforced with lethal power, and our military to be deployed to commit mass murder on the border.

Which in regards to the Haitian Refugees is something to think about because the Dominican Republic uses these very tactics on their border FOR A REASON. You can see the differences between the Dominican Republic, and Haiti from ORBIT. Seriously, go look at Google Maps.

These people are poor for a reason, and it will take some SERIOUS indoctrination efforts to reform them into something resembling a proper citizen.

Meanwhile, we can't provide a decent education for our own people! So I feel CatGirl's drive here... I'm a military brat, it drives me UP A WALL to see so many spit on the sacrifices of my family and countless others to just beat down the back door as if the US owes everyone else on the planet a safe place to live. WE DO NOT!

But I temper that voice with the knowledge that we can be better, we're "not full", and we have more room to grow our economy with more labor. But it's all a very hard sell while our middle class dies under the poorly implemented controls of this pandemic amplifying generations of terrible fiscal policy. Terrible fiscal policy that's the fault of BOTH parties, so we the people have no one to vote for that makes it better.

Untill just before WWII we pretty much let anyone into the United States. You went to Ellis Island spent about 3 hours answering a few questions and getting a quick health check for TB and presto you got in. Most of the people reading this are probably descendants of such immigration. It didn't cause the ruination of America. I'm libertarian, I support true free boarders because economics will determine if it's viable or not.

 

[britechguy]

They were let in because that's what you do as good moral people.

I'd definitely argue with the characterization, "they were let in." But I agree entirely with your overarching statement.

What occurred with the Haitian refugees is an example of what happens when people should have been "let in" and actually were "let in" using a controlled, orderly process. And it's the latter that we really don't have, particularly when those occasions present themselves where large numbers of refugees happen to present all at once. It's not at all impossible to have one, either.

 

[callthatgirl]

@britechguy it's been happening with every administration, they all try to shoot their shot to fix it and they can't. Won't.

For the record, I'm for immigration. Just like everything else, follow the rules and that's my opinion not a fact.

 

[britechguy]

Sounds like the root of the problem isn't even being looked at,

BS. The root of the problem(s) are myriad, and what assistance can be given, which is minimal, is fought tooth and nail by the America Firsters.

No president or vice president is going to successfully change the forces that drive these refugees here. What they could fix, if the political will existed, is how we handle them once they present at our door. And how we handle them would involve, regardless of the process itself, of inviting them in, not deporting them back.

 

[britechguy]

follow the rules and that's my opinion not a fact.

The problem being that the rules are broken, and have been broken for decades. And it is the political right, not the left, that has turned them into a third-rail that cannot be touched.

My post immediately previous to this says pretty much what I have to say. If you consider it "open borders" to accept, in an orderly fashion and by an agreed-upon process, those who present themselves at the border then I guess I'll cop to wanting open borders. What I don't want is people having to sneak in and live in the shadows. It's not good for them, and it's not good for us, either.

 

[callthatgirl]

@britechguy but let's get back to the real issue, the vaccine. So open the door wide up, why can't they force vaccines? Everyone else in the US is getting fired for not getting them, so why are the Haitians free to come in unvaxxed? It's easy, force the rules.

 

[britechguy]

It's easy, force the rules.

You keep talking about vaccine mandates as though the government is the main driving force. It isn't, employers are.

If you want a government (specifically federal) mandate then say so and do what's necessary to support it. I openly believe we must have mandated Covid vaccination, and do everything to try to make that happen (which, admittedly, is not much more than saying so in public).

But the so-called rules you want enforced do not exist. Employer mandates are not applicable here, and there is no federal mandate for the general citizenry at all. And it's being fought, tooth and nail, in certain quarters, and if you're honest, you'd recognize those quarters are where you actually live politically.

 

[nlinecomputers]

@britechguy but let's get back to the real issue, the vaccine. So open the door wide up, why can't they force vaccines? Everyone else in the US is getting fired for not getting them, so why are the Haitians free to come in unvaxxed? It's easy, force the rules.

If they get a legal job they, just like you, will have to get vaccinated. I'm self employed, no one is forcing me to be vaccinated. The situation is NO different for them. In order for the new vaccine to be added, new laws have to be passed. Per the Constitution.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Article 1, Section 8, Paragraph 4
[The Congress shall have The power]
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;