Would you take a Coronavirus Vaccine

[frase]

I rode one onsite this morning..

 

[nlinecomputers]

I rode one onsite this morning..

Hey we are not here to judge your personal life choices.

Edit. Ruined my joke by leaving out the word not. #facepalm

 

[putz]

And, @putz, it's more than that. If masks worked 90%, 70%, or even 30%, I'd wear one. But 2%?! And, in a lot of cases (because no one knows how to actually wear one properly), they cause more harm than good (32 of the studies I mentioned above show that).

<going back into ignore/lurk mode>

uhh please do share the info you have that shows masks only reduce transmission by 2%.

 

[Galdorf]

I got the pfizer vaccine did not have any issues not even a sore arm now they are making a vaccine for animals.

https://www.sciencealert.com/atlant...ive-for-coronavirus-and-are-now-being-treated

https://news.zoetis.com/press-relea...upport-the-Health-of-Zoo-Animals/default.aspx

 

[TechLady]

At the beginning of this thread (January) there were a whole bunch of you that said you weren't going to get the vaccine. Now that 660,000 Americans are dead, (4.55 million worldwide), I'm genuinely curious if anyone has had a change of heart?

 

[britechguy]

I'm genuinely curious if anyone has had a change of heart?

As am I. But I will also include that we now have many millions of individuals vaccinated and with no statistically significant safety issues (lower than that of taking aspirin, for instance) and it's been effective. Even those who've had breakthrough infections, which is a tiny number among ongoing infections, seldom require any treatment or hospitalization.

With scads of field evidence, as well as formal approval from US and European (and other) regulatory agencies, the evidence of safety and efficacy is clear. The possible to probable results, depending on a number of factors, of getting Covid as an unvaccinated individual are also clear.

 

[NviGate Systems]

There was a nurse who recently released a TikTok video about how the various alarms that go off when a patient's vitals are in the red, is all she can hear day in, day out. Apparently it was dark enough that there were confirmed reports of individuals who got vaccinated due to this. Apparently she has been asked if her video can be used as a PSA style video, and she gave her OK. I can't recall where in the US this was, but it was in the US.

I wonder if tone plays a role in those alarms? It sounds like PTSD, where similar sights or sounds can trigger it.

And yes, to answer the thread's question, I am fully vaccinated. Pfizer. First dose was sore arm, second dose was a few days of that "bleh" feeling when you are sick and a bit of weakness.

 

[Sky-Knight]

I've spent entirely too much time in hospitals in my life...

And this: https://www.tiktok.com/@nurse_sushi...90886?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

This is what should be flooding our news networks. I swear the fact that our LOCAL ICU's aren't in our faces day in and day out are the entire reason we're still arguing with this stupid super cold.

 

[britechguy]

This is what should be flooding our news networks.

Well, while I've not necessarily seen exactly this, I've seen plenty like it on the national news for months now. Health care workers, and their plights, have become a story in itself, and justifiably so.

I've said before, and will say again, that willful stupidity has no cure through suasion. It generally takes some sort of "Road to Damascus" moment, whatever that may be for the benighted individual.

Testimonies such as that one on TikTok are "just a part of the government hoax, and wanting to control me." Sad, but true.

At this point my sympathy/empathy for anyone who is unvaccinated by choice is, entirely, gone. I don't wish them ill. I don't wish anyone ill. But if they do become ill they have absolutely no one to blame but themselves. The truth of the pandemic has been staring us in the face for well over a year now, and around the world.

The people I am truly concerned about are those, including kids under 12, who still cannot be vaccinated. They are being endangered, through no fault of their own, by people who will not behave responsibly and with concern for individuals beyond themselves. And while not every anti-Covid-vaxxer is such due to political reasons, the vast majority are, and that's just repugnant and immoral. Your individual rights end where they become an actual threat to others, and in a pandemic allowing yourself to very likely become, at some point, the next carrier and spreader is immoral. The lives of others do hang in the balance. Do the right thing; get vaccinated.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Hopefully we'll have emergency authorization for the 5-11 year olds next month. There is no data I'm aware of in the test populations to stop it.

Sadly, that's a LONG TIME in this wave.

As for the rest, given where our hospitals are it seems that we should simply be authorizing them to not treat unvacinated people that have done so without medical requirement.

We've got all sorts of other issues going on too beyond this pandemic, and at some point we're going to have to make the decision that we do not have the room for stupid, and act accordingly. It's personal responsibility they want right? Fine... give it to them.

 

[britechguy]

As for the rest, given where our hospitals are it seems that we should simply be authorizing them to not treat unvacinated people that have done so without medical requirement.

Even I can't go that far.

But, I can say that these patients should not take priority over other emergencies over which the individuals involved had no control whatsoever. When you've got cities the size of Austin, TX, with 4 ICU beds left (which they did at one point) there is no doubt triage for ICU beds becomes critical.

I am, and always have been, a firm believer in personal responsibility - and I mean true personal responsibility. The choices I make have consequences, and I'm aware of that and should be willing to bear them. There are plenty of situations any one of us can find ourselves in that we could never have predicted or planned for no matter what, and those are a different thing altogether. That's why I also believe in a solid social safety net, too. Sometimes, I'd say often, the difference between the two causal contributions is anything but clear. But in the case of the unvaccinated (by choice) and Covid infection, it is abundantly clear and is not, in any way, shape, or form, something the likes of which we are not already familiar with. It's the scale that's different, but the solution has been in use for much longer than I've been alive - vaccination/inoculation.

I worked in a brain injury services program for 6 years, and I learned a lot about how personal choices can very directly impact the outcomes of, shall we say, suboptimal circumstances. I also became completely convinced of the need for compulsory seatbelt and helmet use laws. If everyone involved in a serious accident either conveniently died or completely recovered (it wouldn't matter much which) the costs to society as a whole would be minimal. But the problem is they seldom do either, and anything that gets us closer to the "complete recovery" end of the spectrum is better for the individual and for everyone else, too, particularly their families and loved ones. But the costs, both financial and emotional, of permanent disability are huge. It is your obligation (the generic you) to take the necessary actions to preclude that happening to you so that everyone else is not left "holding the bag." (Which, sadly, they are. After yourself, those who care about you most are the most negatively impacted.)

 

[Sky-Knight]

@britechguy We had a nurse shortage before the pandemic... They're abandoning the profession in droves because they can no longer emotionally grapple with the reality. Heck, I'd go nuts just from the infernal bleeping alone.

Telling them to wait in line because there's no room because literally every other case type has priority is a functional answer... but doesn't really solve the problem.

And every day the issue gets larger, not just because of the expanding case loads but due to attrition of a very specifically trained, poorly compensated, and highly professional group of people.

Of course simply telling them to pound sand doesn't solve the problem either... What solves the problem are adults waking up to the fact that this mess sucks, and they need to take every possible action to solve it. To start with, getting your shots.

 

[Galdorf]

There are many that won't get vaccines because they are afraid of needles here is something that could fix that and the ability to do it yourself anytime you want.

https://www.sciencealert.com/this-t...rompt-stronger-immune-responses-than-a-needle

 

[britechguy]

At this juncture my partner is scheduled for his Pfizer booster next week.

Once advice appears about how those of us in the J&J camp should proceed is forthcoming, I'll be following that advice. That's whether it's a no booster call (unlikely based on available data), a second dose, or a mix-n-match with the Pfizer or Moderna with a single shot of one of those.

 

[Sky-Knight]

There are many that won't get vaccines because they are afraid of needles here is something that could fix that and the ability to do it yourself anytime you want.

https://www.sciencealert.com/this-t...rompt-stronger-immune-responses-than-a-needle

The irony is the original vaccine developed by UPMC that ultimately become the Biontec stuff that Pfizer partnered with and got us what we call the Pfizer shot now. (This was all back in 2000 during the first SARS outbreak I might add) Was actually developed to be delivered via these micro-needles.

I have a phobia of needles too, but know what bugs me more? Tiny shards of sugar needles left over in my skin for days... I think I'll stick with the regular shot, looking the other way and humming really loud.

But I leave it to my doctor to figure out how to deliver medication. If that person says do this thing... I'll do it. I'm going to hate it, but I'll do it.

 

[Galdorf]

What i am seeing now is starting to disturb me companies in Canada are now mandating the vaccine even if you have a medical exemption or religious either you get it or get fired there are no exemptions period so what are these people who are deathly allergic to the shot supposed to do trying to get a job in the future.

I got mine the government is now making me police who can enter my business by checking vaccine status i really think this is going in wrong direction us vs them i thought this is a free country now that seems to be vanishing.

 

[nlinecomputers]

What i am seeing now is starting to disturb me companies in Canada are now mandating the vaccine even if you have a medical exemption or religious either you get it or get fired there are no exemptions period so what are these people who are deathly allergic to the shot supposed to do trying to get a job in the future.

I got mine the government is now making me police who can enter my business by checking vaccine status i really think this is going in wrong direction us vs them i thought this is a free country now that seems to be vanishing.

This article disagrees with you.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/vaccination-mandates-employees-rights-1.6142584

 

[SAFCasper]

What i am seeing now is starting to disturb me companies in Canada are now mandating the vaccine even if you have a medical exemption or religious either you get it or get fired there are no exemptions period so what are these people who are deathly allergic to the shot supposed to do trying to get a job in the future.

Absolutely agree on the medical front. If you have a genuine medical exemption it's nothing short of discrimination to be fired.

Just to clarify - My definition of genuine medical exemption means it's agreed upon by a medical professional eg. your GP

As for religious exemptions - I have more sense than to comment on religion online.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Yep, anyone that knows anything about employment learned a long time ago to never give a reason for termination. Disclosed reasons get you sued.

As for most employers... they're stuck in a dark place. A lack of a vaccine mandate is becoming a very real cost on the insurance side. So financially, unvaccinated people are not only more likely to miss work, but cause others to miss work... (even more losses). Meanwhile their general liability insurance and medical insurance rates are skyrocketing.

This is creating a situation much like smokers, you can stay employed while unvaccinated likely... but you're going to be working remotely, given the crap hours, or you're going to take a pay cut to do it. As time goes on this is going to become more and more common.

Right or wrong, the money has spoken. And reasonable accommodation for those that cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons isn't going to end well for any of those folks either. It rarely ends well for anyone in such circumstances. We're an ablest society.

 

[britechguy]

And reasonable accommodation for those that cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons isn't going to end well for any of those folks either.

Actually, I disagree provided vaccine mandates are put into place and then enforced.

For virtually any of the childhood illnesses you can name, and measles is far more transmissible than even Covid is, there are not outbreaks in areas where there are vaccine mandates for school attendance and exceptions are given only when a medical professional provides a statement that they are contraindicated.

Herd immunity by vaccine is what eventually eradicated smallpox from the wild, has caused measles to virtually disappear except where there are pockets of anti-vax activity and one kid happens to get it, and has caused the incidence of even chicken pox to plummet since a vaccine became available. When's the last case of whooping cough (pertussus) you've heard of?

All we need is enough people to be no longer able of being the "feeder underbrush" for the flames of an infectious agent. There will always be some underbrush, but so long as it's limited, and the distance between one area of the unvaccinated and another is enough for the vaccine to have formed a massive buffer, these things come to an end.

But you hit the head with the phrase "reasonable accommodation," which I'm intimately familiar with after all my years working in disability services of various sorts. The problem being these days that many think that any whim constitutes a reason for an accommodation. It doesn't, and never has.