Clone HDD's failing often

[Rigo]

You need to first check the partitions on the source drive.
If there is no UEFI partition, then you need to clone as MBR even if the BIOS offers UEFI as an option.
Once your clone is working you can then convert to UEFI with the Windows tool and procedure.
The times this would not work is when there is severe corruption/damage on the source but the cloning software will tell you so anyway. You cannot ignore errors and continue, it will not work.
If there are too many bad sectors or something else is failing, it will not work. Run manufacturer's diagnostics tool to check, though this is not full guarantee the drive is ok. Sometimes you get a whiff from symptoms as well.
If it is a filesystem corruption with no severe hardware problems, chkdisk might help you clear that before trying to clone again.
I always clone using a bench PC with both drive directly connected either SATA or secondary M.2 on the mobo. Probably 0.001% failure rate provided every box was ticked ok.

 

[fincoder]

You can use MBR2GPT to do this cant you?

But this doesn't convert the OS install from legacy BIOS (CSM) to UEFI does it? Simply converting the drive initialisation to GPT doesn't convert the OS install to UEFI, as far as I know.

 

[NviGate Systems]

Windows 8+ has all files needed for both BIOS/UEFI, the only thing you have to update is the boot files. You can image a device running BIOS and run it on EFI provided you update partition to correct for boot requirements.

 

[britechguy]

But this doesn't convert the OS install from legacy BIOS (CSM) to UEFI does it? Simply converting the drive initialisation to GPT doesn't convert the OS install to UEFI, as far as I know.

No, it doesn't.

See: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-convert-mbr-disk-gpt-move-bios-uefi-windows-10
as well as the note about doing what's mentioned there in: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/mbr-to-gpt

 

[alexsmith2709]

But this doesn't convert the OS install from legacy BIOS (CSM) to UEFI does it? Simply converting the drive initialisation to GPT doesn't convert the OS install to UEFI, as far as I know.

It creates the EFI system partition and configures the BCD correctly in addition to changing the drive to GPT. All thats required after that is making sure UEFI is set for the boot settings.
I have done this, albeit a couple years ago and it worked as expected. From the sounds of it Acronis converts the drive to GPT, but doesnt create the ESP partition so fails to boot.

Its not clear from the OP if this SSD is being used in the same computer or if its a new motherboard. If its the same then they need to find a way to stop Acronis from wanting to switch to GPT.

@britechguy both links you posted have this process listed so im confused by your "No, it doesn't" comment.

 

[JohnDoe1980]

If your tech bench has a disk and is configured as EFI or GPT, that could explain why Acronis is trying to convert the disks, it thinks they will be used on your tech bench.

Well, it does, however I'm running the cloning software from within a WinPE boot disk. Would that change anything?

 

[britechguy]

@britechguy both links you posted have this process listed so im confused by your "No, it doesn't" comment.

I guess it depends on which "this process" we're each making reference to. MBR2GPT does everything necessary on the disk itself, but it does not handle any UEFI changes themselves, hence the comment on the Microsoft support page (which is highlighted):
-----
Important

After the disk has been converted to GPT partition style, the firmware must be reconfigured to boot in UEFI mode.

Make sure that your device supports UEFI before attempting to convert the disk.
-----

I interpreted @fincoder's original query: "But this doesn't convert the OS install from legacy BIOS (CSM) to UEFI does it?"
as referring to the firmware (UEFI/BIOS) side of things, not the disk side of things. MBR2GPT doesn't touch that side, and in some cases you have to do that as well.

 

[JohnDoe1980]

Ok, so I have another clone today which has failed. It's an M.2 to an M.2. I wiped the drive in the new laptop and then connected the source drive via USB, then booted into WinPE and ran clone software. Said it completed successfully. Restarted and got BSOD. Tried just putting the old drive into the new laptop and got inaccessible boot device. Put the new cloned drive back into the laptop and went to do a windows 10 install and windows cannot find the drive. There is nothing there. Also the touchpad wont work in windows setup. This exact same thing happened to me a couple weeks ago. Inaccessible boot device and no touchpad after clone. Somethings happening here I don't understand. It'd really messed up my day as I'm backlogged with work today and trying to get these done.

I tried a regular 2.5" SSD as there is room for one of those in the new laptop and it's the same thing. No drive detected. This is really weird and is EXACTLY what happened to me a couple weeks ago.

 

[DRPCNZ]

Ok, so I have another clone today which has failed. It's an M.2 to an M.2. I wiped the drive in the new laptop and then connected the source drive via USB, then booted into WinPE and ran clone software. Said it completed successfully. Restarted and got BSOD. Tried just putting the old drive into the new laptop and got inaccessible boot device. Put the new cloned drive back into the laptop and went to do a windows 10 install and windows cannot find the drive. There is nothing there. Also the touchpad wont work in windows setup. This exact same thing happened to me a couple weeks ago. Inaccessible boot device and no touchpad after clone. Somethings happening here I don't understand. It'd really messed up my day as I'm backlogged with work today and trying to get these done.

I tried a regular 2.5" SSD as there is room for one of those in the new laptop and it's the same thing. No drive detected. This is really weird and is EXACTLY what happened to me a couple weeks ago.

Have you got another tech handy in your region who can come onsite or that you can go to so he can actually see what you are doing and what is happening. Somewhere in the step by step you are missing something that you are not telling us. I don't want to go back and reread it all it will give me a headache, you HAVE TRIED a DIFFRENT USB CABLE in a DIFFERENT USB port? In all the years I have been cloning drives I would have had less than 10 fail. I have been a tech for coming up 46-47 years and have been cloning for a lot of years.

 

[JohnDoe1980]

Have you got another tech handy in your region who can come onsite or that you can go to so he can actually see what you are doing and what is happening. Somewhere in the step by step you are missing something that you are not telling us. I don't want to go back and reread it all it will give me a headache, you HAVE TRIED a DIFFRENT USB CABLE in a DIFFERENT USB port? In all the years I have been cloning drives I would have had less than 10 fail. I have been a tech for coming up 46-47 years and have been cloning for a lot of years.

Funny you asked, I did have another tech come in who has 40 years experience and he couldn't figure it out either. The only thing I can think of doing now is throwing the original drive or the cloned drive into yet another laptop.

 

[fincoder]

It creates the EFI system partition and configures the BCD correctly in addition to changing the drive to GPT. All thats required after that is making sure UEFI is set for the boot settings.

OK, good to know. I just took the name of the command literally, didn't realise it changed the system partition and BCD.

 

[NviGate Systems]

Ok, so I have another clone today which has failed. It's an M.2 to an M.2. I wiped the drive in the new laptop and then connected the source drive via USB, then booted into WinPE and ran clone software. Said it completed successfully. Restarted and got BSOD. Tried just putting the old drive into the new laptop and got inaccessible boot device. Put the new cloned drive back into the laptop and went to do a windows 10 install and windows cannot find the drive. There is nothing there. Also the touchpad wont work in windows setup. This exact same thing happened to me a couple weeks ago. Inaccessible boot device and no touchpad after clone. Somethings happening here I don't understand. It'd really messed up my day as I'm backlogged with work today and trying to get these done.

I tried a regular 2.5" SSD as there is room for one of those in the new laptop and it's the same thing. No drive detected. This is really weird and is EXACTLY what happened to me a couple weeks ago.

Are you still using Hirens to boot your WinPE? If so, it's likely adding to your problems.

Also, on this new clone, you are moving the Windows install to a new system. Is this new system identical? What CPU Chipset do they each use?

It's hard to follow your post due to lack of structure, I'm sure that's partly stress and lack of time.

First, get yourself a proper bench approved cloning software. I can't guarantee it will end your problems, but at least if that is a known variable, we can pin down what else is going on.

I have a feeling your training/experience may be contributing and that's why you are running into issues because your way of solving problems is frought with more issues.

That's really something that can't be fully solved over the net, but you need a good knowledgeable tech to shadow and learn some procedures from.

Understand that I'm not insulting or picking at you, but are you self taught? Because being self taught can be good however you can get in a rut and there comes a time when you have to expand your knowledge and keep learning. This job is never a learn it once good for life.

Anyways, best of luck.

 

[JohnDoe1980]

Are you still using Hirens to boot your WinPE? If so, it's likely adding to your problems.

Also, on this new clone, you are moving the Windows install to a new system. Is this new system identical? What CPU Chipset do they each use?

It's hard to follow your post due to lack of structure, I'm sure that's partly stress and lack of time.

First, get yourself a proper bench approved cloning software. I can't guarantee it will end your problems, but at least if that is a known variable, we can pin down what else is going on.

I have a feeling your training/experience may be contributing and that's why you are running into issues because your way of solving problems is frought with more issues.

That's really something that can't be fully solved over the net, but you need a good knowledgeable tech to shadow and learn some procedures from.

Understand that I'm not insulting or picking at you, but are you self taught? Because being self taught can be good however you can get in a rut and there comes a time when you have to expand your knowledge and keep learning. This job is never a learn it once good for life.

Anyways, best of luck.

Thanks for your comment. Yes, I am using Hirens. I am partly self-taught and I also have experience working as a technician for a couple companies. I've also done some online classes.

I just booted into Hirens and loaded Aomei Partition Assistant and the drive is showing in there, so that's sort of promising but I'm unsure of what I can do from here. I found an article that says to "rebuild MBR" from Aomei Partition Assistant but when I do that it tells me it's not supported on the standard edition and I'm not really into buying something that may or may not work.

This is the page I'm looking at https://www.diskpart.com/articles/how-to-fix-no-bootable-device-7201.html

 

[JohnDoe1980]

I have a feeling your training/experience may be contributing and that's why you are running into issues

I realize I am not as skilled as many of the people here, and I do appreciate the effort all of you are putting in to help me. This is a learning process for me.

 

[fincoder]

For running my own software tools I use a Windows 2 Go USB enclosure with SSD. The tool called Rufus can now create a Win2Go drive using a downloaded Windows installer ISO and it works very well. I use this to run Fabs and other windows-based tools e.g. cloning, Crystal Disk Info, Treesize, etc.

Win2Go drives can run any app, whereas WinPE drives can only run selected apps.

 

[Rigo]

I just booted into Hirens

This probably with 95% confidence is the source of your problem.
If you're using Hirens to be able to run free software, the time you've waste far outweighs the cost of a license of any good cloning software.
Plus most major SSD manufacturers provide a free tool to this which should be your first call as they all work for the intended purpose.
MBR to MBR - GPT to GPT, you cannot change this at the cloning stage.
Install your cloning software directly onto the bench PC's Windows and you'll achieve probably 99.99% success. Plus improved performance and throughput.

 

[NviGate Systems]

Thanks for your comment. Yes, I am using Hirens. I am partly self-taught and I also have experience working as a technician for a couple companies. I've also done some online classes.

I just booted into Hirens and loaded Aomei Partition Assistant and the drive is showing in there, so that's sort of promising but I'm unsure of what I can do from here. I found an article that says to "rebuild MBR" from Aomei Partition Assistant but when I do that it tells me it's not supported on the standard edition and I'm not really into buying something that may or may not work.

This is the page I'm looking at https://www.diskpart.com/articles/how-to-fix-no-bootable-device-7201.html

For right now I wouldn't spend time googling your issue because it's not going to help. Most of those style pages are very generic cookie cutter. They often are wrong and have bad advice.

I prefer tech blogs where you have someone from the industry who found an issue, posts the fix and some relavant info regarding it.

Your biggest issue as I have said is Hirens. There are countless posts on Reddit and Google showing that people tried to clone perfectly working drives with Hirens and it messed them up.

Does your employer have a budget and is willing to buy software? https://www.paragon-software.com/home/pm-professional/ It's $80 and will allow sooo soo sooo much more ability for you to backup, recover, clone and more. You can even make dedicated DVD/USB recovery medium. It's what I use personally and professionally.

Also, if you can, starting now you should try and start a new policy that clones between different machines are NOT possible. I don't know your environment, but if you are promising these types of services it will keep adding complexity to your daily routine. Start cutting back on the issues causing this until you are able to get the experience needed. If customers have two machines and they want to clone between them, you advise them it's not a guaranteed solution and you are not providing that option. At least until you get your general routines and basics down pat.

 

[JoelM]

@JohnDoe1980
It seems you are creating the issue due to your process.

1 - Use the cloning software that comes with the new drive. This can easily be done on the original computer that has the drive you want to clone. There is no reason to not do it inside Windows on the original computer. This make sure everything stays the same. MBR and/or GPT.
2 - Attach the new drive to the original comptuer either internally or via USB and run the cloning software that comes with the new drive.
3 - Turn off the computer after the clone finished and swap the drives.

I do this on a weekly basis and as long as there are no bad sectors have never had this simple process fail. Why add another bench computer into the cloning process if it's not necessary?

 

[alexsmith2709]

I guess it depends on which "this process" we're each making reference to. MBR2GPT does everything necessary on the disk itself, but it does not handle any UEFI changes themselves, hence the comment on the Microsoft support page (which is highlighted):
-----
Important

After the disk has been converted to GPT partition style, the firmware must be reconfigured to boot in UEFI mode.

Make sure that your device supports UEFI before attempting to convert the disk.
-----

I interpreted @fincoder's original query: "But this doesn't convert the OS install from legacy BIOS (CSM) to UEFI does it?"
as referring to the firmware (UEFI/BIOS) side of things, not the disk side of things. MBR2GPT doesn't touch that side, and in some cases you have to do that as well.

Looks like we were referring to different things. I interpreted "OS install" as the EFI system partition and whether or not it is created by MBR2GPT

 

[JohnDoe1980]

I've decided to halt cloning for now tilI figure this out. I decided to use Fabs Backup and now I'm having trouble with that too. Fabs is only copying a few hundred megabytes worth of data when there are many GB's. Anyone else run into this?