Clone HDD's failing often

[HCHTech]

I installed a copy of windows on the new drive but had also left the second SSD I tried still connected via sata.

This is a mistake. Windows has a bad habit of placing the boot sector on the WRONG DRIVE when you present it with an option. Always disconnect additional drives during the installation. You can add them back later (preferably after formatting them in case the last installation had a boot sector on that drive.

 

[JohnDoe1980]

This is a mistake. Windows has a bad habit of placing the boot sector on the WRONG DRIVE when you present it with an option. Always disconnect additional drives during the installation. You can add them back later (preferably after formatting them in case the last installation had a boot sector on that drive.

Yea, I figured. I just reinstalled windows on the the drive I want to use with the other drive disconnected. Hoping that works.

 

[JohnDoe1980]

Yea, I figured. I just reinstalled windows on the the drive I want to use with the other drive disconnected. Hoping that works.

Installation went fine. Everything is good. Used Fabs to restore data. No program files though. :/

 

[fincoder]

GPT is required for Windows 11 compatibility, probably why Acronis is suggesting that now.

If the old drive is MBR, the OS on it is likely installed with legacy BIOS (aka CSM) enabled or on an old PC that doesn't have UEFI support (e.g. Intel 3rd gen and older). All modern PCs now default to UEFI BIOS, some still have optional legacy BIOS (CSM mode) but that isn't supported by Windows 11.

A drive with OS installed with legacy BIOS will not boot in a UEFI system, even if MBR is converted to UEFI. I don't know of any way to convert an installed OS to UEFI.

 

[Porthos]

Used Fabs to restore data. No program files though. :/

It was never designed to move programs. You always have to reinstall programs after a clean install.
As for clones or in my case images, I will only go from an mbr system to mbr. UEFI to UEFI. Everything else is a clean install with data transfer only and programs installed fresh.

 

[alexsmith2709]

GPT is required for Windows 11 compatibility, probably why Acronis is suggesting that now.

If the old drive is MBR, the OS on it is likely installed with legacy BIOS (aka CSM) enabled or on an old PC that doesn't have UEFI support (e.g. Intel 3rd gen and older). All modern PCs now default to UEFI BIOS, some still have optional legacy BIOS (CSM mode) but that isn't supported by Windows 11.

A drive with OS installed with legacy BIOS will not boot in a UEFI system, even if MBR is converted to UEFI. I don't know of any way to convert an installed OS to UEFI.

You can use MBR2GPT to do this cant you? I'm sure i have done this before https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/mbr-to-gpt

 

[Diggs]

FWIW - I used to struggle with cloning long ago and developed a procedure that works for me. I use Reflect to make an image and store it on my DAS. That image is my security if anything goes wrong I am backed up. Using an image means I can also downsize to any drive large enough for it to fit on. If the original drive won't image under Windows (drive integrity failed) then it goes on a Linux machine and ddrescue is used to make a 1:1 checked and corrected copy on another drive. Then that corrected drive gets imaged with Reflect and that image used to clone down to a smaller drive. I can't remember the last time I had problems using this procedure.

 

[JohnDoe1980]

It was never designed to move programs. You always have to reinstall programs after a clean install.
As for clones or in my case images, I will only go from an mbr system to mbr. UEFI to UEFI. Everything else is a clean install with data transfer only and programs installed fresh.

So yea, that's what I've been doing, (MBR to MBR and GPT to GPT) etc.. But since using Acronis, it's been converting MBR to GPT on the target disk even if the source is MBR and it's been working except for my last clone.

 

[timeshifter]

I don't understand why you'd want or need to go from MBR to GPT, assuming you're just changing out a drive in an existing machine.

 

[JohnDoe1980]

I don't understand why you'd want or need to go from MBR to GPT, assuming you're just changing out a drive in an existing machine.

The reason for the conversion is so that they are the same type, IE if I have a GPT source drive and an MBR target drive, I would want to convert the target drive to match.

 

[JohnDoe1980]

The one thing I didn't do here was stay MBR to MBR as I mentioned I've been using Acronis which converts the target to GPT. I was converting when using Aomei Backupper and had a 50% fail rate. Anyways, I used Fabs and installed what I could, showed the client. They are happy with it. Not too much extra set-up needs to be done but I would like to have my clones be more successful.

 

[JohnDoe1980]

You can use MBR2GPT to do this cant you? I'm sure i have done this before https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/mbr-to-gpt

This looks promising, however I've already given the client back their PC. Next time I run into that winload.efi error I will try this. It says in the article you linked "For Windows to remain bootable after the conversion, an EFI system partition (ESP) must be in place."

 

[NviGate Systems]

I have an idea of what might be happening, so please read fully and don't skip, because it might help.

Many cloning software are very temperamental and often try to "see" what is the host PC, controllers etc to get the best clone.

Are you cloning on a bench PC? As in, not the customer PC but a PC you use for technical tasks? If so, stop doing that unless you have a generic environment that you can safely clone in.

If you are cloning on the client PC, have the source drive connected via USB. It removes the drive as a possible boot device that may push flags in BIOS or EFI that your cloning software may determine for what partition map is needed.

Also if on a client system that supports legacy vs UEFI, make sure you clone in the mode your final install will be. In other words, don't change the system config just so your tools will boot. Make sure you have versions of your tools that will boot regardless of BIOS, EFI, SecureBoot etc.

Do you use the basic or "home" version of Macroum or Acronis? Just as a friendly reminder, they are not licensed for technician use, and don't perform the same as the higher editions. The higher workstation class products have way more features, and often have a fully licensed WindowsPE that the cloning runs from. They have options like crazy to make your life easier and allow you to control the clone.

Did I hit the nail on anything or maybe I'm off the mark? I've struggled before too, so I recognize some of this.

 

[JohnDoe1980]

I have an idea of what might be happening, so please read fully and don't skip, because it might help.

Many cloning software are very temperamental and often try to "see" what is the host PC, controllers etc to get the best clone.

Are you cloning on a bench PC? As in, not the customer PC but a PC you use for technical tasks? If so, stop doing that unless you have a generic environment that you can safely clone in.

If you are cloning on the client PC, have the source drive connected via USB. It removes the drive as a possible boot device that may push flags in BIOS or EFI that your cloning software may determine for what partition map is needed.

Also if on a client system that supports legacy vs UEFI, make sure you clone in the mode your final install will be. In other words, don't change the system config just so your tools will boot. Make sure you have versions of your tools that will boot regardless of BIOS, EFI, SecureBoot etc.

Do you use the basic or "home" version of Macroum or Acronis? Just as a friendly reminder, they are not licensed for technician use, and don't perform the same as the higher editions. The higher workstation class products have way more features, and often have a fully licensed WindowsPE that the cloning runs from. They have options like crazy to make your life easier and allow you to control the clone.

Did I hit the nail on anything or maybe I'm off the mark? I've struggled before too, so I recognize some of this.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post with some good information that I might be able to use.

I usually clone from my tech bench by booting into Hirens BootCD PE and run Aomei Backupper but sometimes I will, for instance my clone yesterday that came with an m.2 drive installed, boot into hirens, with the source drive connected via sata (I was thinking doing it via USB might not be as quick and reliable.. maybe I was wrong)... I never clone from windows.

I'm not sure which version of Acronis I'm using and I haven't yet used Macrium, though I do have it in my winPE USB boot drive.

 

[NviGate Systems]

I think both Hirens and your tech bench are the problem.

First, Hirens has a rather non favorable position in these forums both for technical and legal reasons. They may have cleaned things up, but it's still not something I would run in a shop. Typically Hirens boots the various options available through many chained loaders, which, although not a problem per se, it can cause issues in specific cases.

If your tech bench has a disk and is configured as EFI or GPT, that could explain why Acronis is trying to convert the disks, it thinks they will be used on your tech bench.

I'd suggest cloning on the systems themselves with a *dedicated*, licensed boot disc/USB for a commercial cloning program or the cloning tool provided by the SSD maker if they provide one. Yes it takes extra bench space but for now until you get more experience, it will hopefully lead to more reliable outcomes.

 

[PaulTech]

Terabyte Unlimited.

 

[Rigo]

Terabyte Unlimited

Haven't used BootIT since the XP's days. mainly resizing and moving partitions in those times.
Had a look at the newest offering and it looks worth investigating.

 

[Rigo]

You need to first check the partitions on the source drive.
If there is no UEFI partition, then you need to clone as MBR even if the BIOS offers UEFI as an option.
Once your clone is working you can then convert to UEFI with the Windows tool and procedure.
The times this would not work is when there is severe corruption/damage on the source but the cloning software will tell you so anyway. You cannot ignore errors and continue, it will not work.
If there are too many bad sectors or something else is failing, it will not work. Run manufacturer's diagnostics tool to check, though this is not full guarantee the drive is ok. Sometimes you get a whiff from symptoms as well.
If it is a filesystem corruption with no severe hardware problems, chkdisk might help you clear that before trying to clone again.
I always clone using a bench PC with both drive directly connected either SATA or secondary M.2 on the mobo. Probably 0.001% failure rate provided every box was ticked ok.

 

[fincoder]

You can use MBR2GPT to do this cant you?

But this doesn't convert the OS install from legacy BIOS (CSM) to UEFI does it? Simply converting the drive initialisation to GPT doesn't convert the OS install to UEFI, as far as I know.

 

[NviGate Systems]

Windows 8+ has all files needed for both BIOS/UEFI, the only thing you have to update is the boot files. You can image a device running BIOS and run it on EFI provided you update partition to correct for boot requirements.