Non Political COVID-19 virus thread

Anyone that thinks COVID isn't a serious thing, needs to watch footage from inside Bronx's ERs.

If you want someone to blame for the situation, blame the WHO for running interference for the lying Chinese government. The WHO told the West this wasn't a big deal, that's where that line started... so we all collectively did nothing because the WHO told us not to.

And now the world is missing 129,000 people AND COUNTING because of it. And who knows how many others have possibly permanent lung damage. We're going to be cleaning up this mess for at least a generation.

Trump de-funding the WHO? yeah... perfectly reasonable response, left STFU and get onboard already. The 2nd largest donor to the WHO is Bill Gates, and HE is critical of the WHO's leadership too. You want to talk about facts... there they are. The WHO needs a huge reality check.

As for the disease itself, we've got recent information that indicates the virus is reducing the amount of hemoglobin in the body, this in effect over time destroys the blood's ability to carry oxygen and carbon dioxide around... blood taken from seriously ill patients in these circumstances is almost black and remains so when exposed to the atmosphere!

imagine your blood being so screwed up, it doesn't turn red when you cut yourself... that's what this thing is doing! But "it's no big deal".

Though Trump (stopped watch moment again) was also correct in that if we don't restart soon, the suicides will outnumber the COVID deaths... the desperation is real. For sure there aren't many good answers to this.

https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID...e_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173
 
britechguy said:
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
~ Jonathan Swift (1667-1745)
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britechguy said:
Tough toenails! You and your backwoodsman couldn't reason your ways out of a paper bag.
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...says the guy who can't be bothered to spend a few minutes doing basic, simple research, but just goes straight for the vulgar insults instead. It certainly does put your full reasoning capability on display for all to see, I'll give you that much. Did I see someone mention irony a few posts back?

Actually I know you're a pretty intelligent guy and can reason a lot better than that. But I've found even very intelligent people often set up mental blocks for themselves that they absolutely refuse to see past. Apparently you've hit one of those.
 
I consider the sources, and weight them accordingly.

None of yours holds a candle to the CDC, WHO, NIH, and myriad other organizations and individuals who are infectious disease experts. It is not I who suffers from the inability to see. And the idea that I have not done my homework is simply laughable.

What you are spouting is, quite simply, garbage.
 
britechguy said:
None of yours [sources] holds a candle to the CDC, WHO, NIH, and myriad other organizations and individuals who are infectious disease experts.
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How could you possibly know that? You don't know anything about my sources because I haven't named any and you haven't bothered to ask. All you know is what little I've said, which is, hmm, let's see... "official sources" and "major media". If those are unreliable, why do you trust them?

And the idea that I have not done my homework is simply laughable.
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If you've done your homework, why don't you know (for just one example) that there are as many infectious disease experts, and other medical and scientific people, saying the quarantine-everyone approach is madness, as are helping to whip up the panic? They're as qualified, knowledgeable and prominent as those you see on the news, but for some reason they aren't getting any airtime. "As many" is just those I've run across without looking for them; just think what you could turn up if you actually did your homework.

You haven't done your homework; what you've probably done is read a few things that agree with what you want to believe, and nothing from any other angle. Now you think you know everything, and that I'm the idiot here because I disagree. So you don't care what I actually think, you just do the classic straw man thing by making some huge assumptions about me, then attacking your straw man. Just the usual mistakes blowhard know-it-alls usually make, and the province of small minds that aren't capable of critical thought or reasoning through a factual, logical argument. This would be a good time to consider if you want to stop trying to attack me, at least until you have some idea of what it is you're attacking, and some kind of weapon to do it with.
 
Anybody that thinks Covid-19 isn't a very, very serious thing - and for a multitude of reasons - has simply been living under a rock.

An hour's viewing of or listening to any legitimate broadcast media outlet or reading of any one of the major newspapers, on any random day, contains enough information to convince any reasonable person of the seriousness of the situation and that it warrants all the caution being taken about it (if not more).

And I knew this before a close friend of the family in his 70s with a mild heart condition came down with it and very nearly died in very short order.

I might very well be able to go running about, living my normal life, and contracting Covid-19 without even knowing. Then again, I might not. But that's irrelevant, because public health measures are not "all about me" but all about protecting the public at large, especially the most vulnerable. Contrary to the strongly held opinions of some, it really isn't all about YOU. Reasonable adults understand this, and behave accordingly.
 
Sky-Knight said:
One example:
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No doubt it's very difficult and stressful to see what they see on a daily basis. I wouldn't wish on anyone what either they or their patients go through. It's easy to understand how one would lose perspective of things outside one's immediate environment.

That said, we can't lose sight of the fact that that's only a small part of the whole picture. It doesn't help anyone, and does real, tangible, long-term harm to many, to make decisions and set policies based on less than the best and most complete information available. And that data set now shows clearly what many experts and others have said from the beginning: The healthy never should've been quarantined. Other than those with high-risk factors, most are at less risk from this virus than from the flu, and those at high risk could've been better protected without destroying the economy. The panicked overreaction never should've happened, and it's way past time to end it.

The video mentions young, healthy people who got very ill. Of course there are some, but the data now show that (as of about a week ago when I last checked) about 0.8% of deaths have been people with no high-risk factors. I haven't found a breakdown of that by age, but deaths are heavily skewed toward elderly, so young healthy people are a small fraction of that 0.8%. The video says a lot of scary and heart-wrenching things, but is completely devoid of facts and data -- almost as though someone wants us to be scared rather than informed.
 
britechguy said:
An hour's viewing of or listening to any legitimate broadcast media outlet or reading of any one of the major newspapers, on any random day, contains enough information to convince any reasonable person of the seriousness of the situation and that it warrants all the caution being taken about it (if not more).
Click to expand...
I suppose that's the same "legitimate broadcast media" whose news I don't usually watch, but did a few days ago. They talk as though the most dire early predictions of how bad COVID might be is actually what's happening. It's easy to see why so many are still so fearful, and still support the quarantine-everyone approach; all scare tactics and no real info tends to do that to people.

Unfortunately, all the qualified experts who don't toe the official line just never seem to get any airtime in the legitimate broadcast media and major newspapers. Even so, the majority of people I encounter, both in person and online, are well enough informed that they've long ago come out of the initial panic, and are simply taking measures, or not, appropriate to their situation based on the actual facts and data, which are readily available from mainstream sources even if the "legitimate" media won't talk about them.
 
Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.
~ Henry Rosovsky

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.
~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
 
I really wanted to reject the idea that facts are so easily discounted... but we see the evidence otherwise everywhere.

I'm a religious man myself, but even within the Christian realm this reality is all over the map.

You can see the LDS church, and Catholic church basically walking hand in hand... meanwhile this happens: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/us/bishop-gerald-glenn-coronavirus.html

But seriously, the Mormons and the Catholics don't agree on hardly anything, the two groups compete over who can get into ravaged areas faster. The dynamic is hilarious, and wonderfully positive most of the time. But still... when BOTH leadership structures reacted by CLOSING THE CHURCHES... You'd think people would have gotten a clue about how big this is.

Then you have this: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emaoconnor/coronavirus-church-goers-services-poll-us

The article is almost lamenting that 1/5th of American church goers report they are still "going". But, turn that around... it means that 4/5ths aren't... That's an 80% shutdown...

I mean that's the best we can hope for I guess, with otherwise intelligent people that have no medical backgrounds at all what so ever, utterly clueless as to the damage this monster is inflicting on our civilization.

Part of me is very sympathetic to the idea of just letting it rip... open it all back up, declare it over... and just let the bodies hit the floor. Then we can find all the leaders that supported that idea, try them for mass murder, and execute the lot of them and move on. Without a ton of our elderly, and idiot leaders... society would be fiscally better off doing this. Even if the process is utterly unethical.
 
Sky-Knight said:
Part of me is very sympathetic to the idea of just letting it rip... open it all back up, declare it over... and just let the bodies hit the floor.
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And I still believe, in the end, there is going to be an element of this regardless of what any of us want. I have my doubts that a vaccine will be forthcoming in an expeditious manner (meaning: before the probable "round 2" were to start next fall/winter) and even if it is, the world is full of people who can't get it in an expeditious manner.

There is not going to be a zero risk time to start opening things up. That time certainly doesn't seem to be now, though.

But in the end, there is a value judgment that's going to have to be made about when we start trying to get back to "the new normal." And that judgment directly involves acknowledging that there will be deaths as a result. And if you can't acknowledge that, you're not making anything like an informed, or morally-formed, decision.

This is the nature of dealing with a highly infectious, novel pathogen for which there is no extant immunity in the vast majority of the world's population, and probably won't be enough herd immunity, whether through adventitious infection and recovery or vaccination, any time soon. Things cannot remain "on hold" forever.
 
@britechguy Correct, and the AZ infection rates are falling along with the heat rising... so it's starting to look like now is the time to get things restarted honestly. The heat does seem to be working in our favor.

I have no clue WTF to do about this next Flu season, other than get my usual Flu shot and hope for the best I don't see much else changing.
 
I think these two microbiologists, owners of and working doctors at a major health facility in Bakersfield, CA that's done thousands of COVID tests, might have almost as much real-world knowledge and experience with COVID as a couple of the posters in this thread. Regardless, they have some very interesting things to say, all thoroughly backed up by their own real-world experience and their own company's COVID tests of several thousand people. It's very long, but worth every minute.

Two different places to get the same video:

Youtube:

or Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=537566680274166
 
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For you city folk I thought I would include something I see all the time out here in the country - heh!

33722741_H26332955-720x445.jpg
 
Yet another prominent doctor, this one from Stanford University, with yet another evidence-based call for less panic and more common sense.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

"Five key facts are being ignored by those calling for continuing the near-total lockdown."
"Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19."
"Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding."
"Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem."
"Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections."
"Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures."

Each point, of course, is explained in the article.
 
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