Non Political COVID-19 virus thread

[backwoodsman]

Alright, sorry, I wasted your time. If the charts themselves don't speak for themselves, that I will declare myself the biggest moron around, per previous posts. Going in my cave for good.

I trust you're being a bit facetious. Sometimes certain kinds of people need to be challenged, and it's good you're doing it.

I don't really understand why some feel a need to try to bully and shame others into accepting their view, or at least into not challenging it. I suppose it comes down to an insecurity/inadequacy issue; when one can't answer a perceived challenge with facts and sound reasoning, then attacking the challenger's character, intelligence, etc. at least makes the insecure person feel better about themselves. One has to pity them, really, because one who is still behaving that way in mid-life will probably never find their way out of it, and that's a tragedy.

I imagine this might get some backlash from one or the other of them; that's OK because it'll only prove my point. I don't feel a need to try to convince them of anything, so probably won't respond.

 

[labtech]

It's all good. I don't take anything personal, as it has been a friendly exchange. I tried to stick with facts, at least from my perspective.
My approach with the last video was to basically provide information that is in no way presented with bias by either social or big media (e.g. government charts) to challenge the logical thinking that was discussed in other posts. I was curious to see how processing the information in the charts was going to be consumed. And the last replies were enough for me to understand that even 100% unbiased proof cannot change someone's opinion. And that's totally fine. It remains to see how our world will change in the next 6-12 months.

 

[frase]

Oh Heaven help me... not the gold standard stupidity again... It's the financial version of anti-vax...

I need to spend some time looking in the mirror, so I can figure out why I have this train wreck watching impulse to click on anything you post... I do it, and 5min later I want my 5min of life back.

Gold Standard? You're talking about putting our currency into the hands of the world's gold miners... And who is that?

1.) China
2.) Austrialia
3.) Russia
4.) US

Now... The Aussies I'm game with... but the other two already have too much influence over the US dollar, they don't need MORE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gold_production

It's Australia lol, haha all cool. We have been the most vigilant in this pandemic. Though we have a great PM - we also have idots as State Premiers. All is not the same in each state. Each state has different rules and regulations in place. Here in Vic with Chairman Dan whom is our state premier has strong links with the CCP. Most of our farmland and housing has been bought out by China, Now because our government wants an internal investigation into the Virus. China has tariffs on our exports by 80%.. Yea thanks China spread the Virus, don't tell anyone then blame everyone else. Then hit suppliers with an exorbitant tariff, all it is going to is make local growers not rely on China.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@frase That's the part about COVID that has me wanting to dance in the street. The world at large, is now wise to exactly what China represents. I just hope our governments all follow up and our economies spend this recession rebuilding in better places.

The people I feel sorry for are the Chinese people, they didn't do this... but it is up to them to hold their government responsible for the horrifying mistakes made last year.

 

[Moltuae]

Blame and governance aside, my passion for all-things science and my problem-solving nature has got me thinking about how best to tackle this viral threat, and prevent future pandemics, through the use of technology.

Vaccinations (prevention) and drugs (treatment) are one way, but it occurs to me that 'detection before infection' (copyright moltuae 2020 ) would be a very powerful weapon of defence. The fact that we can't easily 'see' viruses is our greatest weakness. Imagine if we could make viral detectors that would work like the metal-detectors at airports or the walk-through anti-theft detectors at the exit of most shops/stores. Placed at the entrance of all public places, the detectors would be a game-changer, dramatically reducing the spread of any virus and, in some cases, possibly even detecting that the virus is 'on' someone before it gets 'in' them.

So that got me thinking about how to make a contactless viral matter detector and it seems to me that the most obvious technology to use would be spectroscopy. In a particular, I remembered reading some articles in a science journal a few years ago about advances in Raman spectroscopy. Researching this further, it seems that devices have been developed to reliably detect viruses in this way (in particular avian flu), so I wonder why we're not hearing more about this technology being developed to detect a wider range of viruses, in particular COVID-19 ...

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2012SPIE.8358E..0IS/abstract

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/2/895

 

[britechguy]

@Moltuae,

The problem being that there are untold millions of viruses, many of which are utterly benign for humans. And even within classes like coronaviruses, there are plenty that are benign for humans.

If we could somehow determine which were which at the time they were to be detected, you'd be on to something. At the moment, though, I'm not sanguine that this critical step will be available in my lifetime, and probably several following mine.

 

[Moltuae]

Agreed @britechguy . I'm not under any delusion that developing such a device would be quick or easy. I'm really just thinking out loud and pondering some of the areas of science we should perhaps be devoting a little more time and energy to. A discovery might come sooner than we expect, given enough focus and funding.

Presently, it seems that our best hope of detection might be COVID-19 dogs. Which got me thinking about another (potentially better) future technology that could be used to detect all manner of biohazards and chemicals, an artificial sense of smell. Evidence is mounting that a (biological) sense of smell owes its existence to quantum mechanics. With a better understanding of quantum physics, we might someday be able to develop an artificial sense of smell, and possibly one that is far more sensitive than any found in nature.

 

[Mick]

@Moltuae I'd imagine that public resistance/scare stories/media hysteria would be amongst the biggest problems with this. That can be an awfully huge tanker to turn round.

 

[Moltuae]

I'd imagine that public resistance/scare stories/media hysteria would be amongst the biggest problems with this.

You're probably right, sadly. If there's one thing that COVID-19 has taught me, it's to never underestimate how ignorant, stupid (and yet strongly opinionated) people can be. #Dunning-Kruger

 

[britechguy]

Anyone still want to try to claim that Covid-19 is, in the words of Brazil's president, "Just a little flu?"

And that previous statement is not meant to introduce politics, but an example of inanity from one country's elected leader. Other examples abound, from both those in political office and otherwise. Anyone who is minimizing what is going on with this pandemic now is simply stupid, malevolent, or both - regardless of their political persuasion.

 

[Galdorf]

While the news of a vaccine is a great thing it is not a fix the same thing that happens with flu will happen with covid-19 there is s strain that is resistant to vaccine as with flu they need the strain that is going around your area.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/20/health/walter-reed-covid-19-variant/index.html

 

[Sky-Knight]

Study is required, but everyone should be aware that the mRNA vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna don't use the virus, they program the body to produce a protein that exists on the surface of the virus. In this case, the protein spike SARS family viruses use to infect cells.

This characteristic is common among all viruses in the SARS family, not just SARS-COV-2. That's what makes this approach so ground breaking. It's not evolutionarily likely his major aspect of the entire family will go away in a single mutation. It is possible... it's an RNA virus and those things can change very drastically and quickly, but it's still exceedingly unlikely.

Sadly, the lipid carrier mechanism is causing an anaphylactic response in some patients. The good news there is a simple strip allergy test can reveal the relevant allergy quickly prior to receiving the vaccine.

Which of course is why people getting the vaccines right now are doing so while medically supervised. Our doctors need to get the procedure nailed down before the rest of us can get it.

 

[Galdorf]

Sadly, the lipid carrier mechanism is causing an anaphylactic response in some patients. The good news there is a simple strip allergy test can reveal the relevant allergy quickly prior to receiving the vaccine.

There was a nurse that strip showed no allergy she had no allergies and ended up having an anaphylactic reaction.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/16/health/covid-pfizer-vaccine-allergic-reaction.html

 

[britechguy]

There was a nurse that strip showed no allergy she had no allergies and ended up having an anaphylactic reaction.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/16/health/covid-pfizer-vaccine-allergic-reaction.html

None of this is really unexpected, at least if you've been around medical settings and drugs (not just vaccines) for any period of time.

Once something is released to a population where numbers are huge, there will be instances (few, but still) of severe reactions in a certain small portion of the general population in the tail of the bell curve.

I would suggest that anyone who does not believe this look at the Physicians Desk Reference (PDR) or the actual inserts that come with medications, copies of which can generally be viewed at the websites of their respective makers. That, or listen to the commercials where they have to rattle off all the possible side effects of a med. You'll often see life-threatening side effects listed, because there is a very small number in the test subjects who suffered same. Take a look at the side effects listed for aspirin, or ibuprofen, or naproxen sodium and you'll see some awfully severe ones are possible. They are not, however, probable for the vast majority.

And in the case of these vaccines, the approach now being taken is conservative in terms of making sure those who've received it are monitored long enough after receiving it to tell whether such a reaction is occurring to begin with. True analphylaxis doesn't occur 15 hours later, but within minutes (if not seconds for certain severe reactions - see peanut allergies for the classic example from something not medication related).

I know I'll be taking whatever Covid-19 vaccine is available to me by the time I'm "eligible" to get it, after all the front line workers and elderly have been covered first. The risk of my dying from Covid complications were I to contract it is many orders of magnitude higher than from the vaccine.

 

[Moltuae]

There was a nurse that strip

Got me excited there for a moment

 

[Markverhyden]

Got me excited there for a moment

That'd be one way to try to convince me to take the shot.....

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Tired of the whole thing. Sad how "weaponized" it's become...politically.

We've enjoyed a relatively good run without a major outbreak. As we've seen in TV and movies over recent decades...it's something that has had the chance to happen for a long time. In modern times, high percentages of humans travel long distances very fast. "Jet set" people, traveling, commuting, etc. It's been long overdue. "The age of germ warfare" has descended upon us.

But it's been horribly weaponized by politics. A bug with a >99% survival rate.

The bio tech companies worked wonders in producing a vaccine and having it ship in roughly <10 months. Pretty good compared to an early H2N2 virus for the Asian influenza outbreak of the late 50's...where people started getting vaccinate by the mid or late 60's.

The virus always morphs. Been a lot of variants of COVID over the past 50 years. Heck look at the flu shots every winter, it's usually for whatever the big version was the year prior...and not overly effective against the new version.

Tons of conspiracy theories out there. Forced globalism by those in the WHO, certain politicians, heck even Bill Gates is being named for wanting to "chip" everyone. Sometimes I'll get sucked into going down a rabbit hole from some article I read. But at the end of the day, what does it matter. Those of us typing on this forum right here are working people...so no matter what, we have no choice but to get through it. So I'm not going to go pick sides of conspiracies or politics.

There will be sides to the debate of "shut down"...versus..."Keep moving, accept some losses". Both sides have their pros and cons obviously.

I just want to see forward momentum being made, and with these 2x new vaccines starting to trickle out to the people in our country (thanks to 2x neighboring Biotechs...Pfizer...which is about 10 minutes from my office, and Moderna...about an hours drive 1x state north of me)...we'll soon start seeing forward momentum being made. Healthcare workers and elderly in nursing homes have been receiving shots in the past couple of days. As each month goes by....more and more people will be getting it. And we should see the curve at least start to flatten...and then by late winter, early spring...hopefully the masses of us working folk will get a chance to get it, and the curve should start falling. And the economy should start to wake up and churn again.,

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

And now, dumb Yahoo news published that a new much more contagious variant (strain) of the Covid is sweeping through the UK and starting into Europe....and the stock market takes a dump today because of that.

 

[Sky-Knight]

There was a nurse that strip showed no allergy she had no allergies and ended up having an anaphylactic reaction.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/16/health/covid-pfizer-vaccine-allergic-reaction.html

That's one of the cases I'm following, she did NOT have a test prior to the vaccine. She had no history of allergies, that's not the same thing. The lipid they made for this thing doesn't exist in the world naturally as I understand it. So we need an allergy test for it specifically before we get the shot.

The good news is, it's just like a peanut allergy test, a bit rubbed into the skin and you'll know in 5 min. But that specific test needs developed, tested, and deployed now.

@YeOldeStonecat Agreed on all points as usual. But our "leaders" are in a tough spot. Forge on anyway is usually what America does... but that means saying the economy is worth more than lives. The alternative is a shutdown, which if done correctly would have had us all back to work by now... but of course we didn't do it correctly... due to "compromise" we got the worst of both worlds and a nightmare that we just can't wake up from.

 

[Galdorf]

Where i live covid-19 is not a pandemic and nobody has died from it in fact we are still in green and only .002% of the population has been infected if that is a pandemic then what is cancer more people die of cancer at .37% of the population.

Looks like ford is going to hard lock down again i knew this was going to happen really going to kill my business again still has not recovered.