Would you take a Coronavirus Vaccine

[nlinecomputers]

More than 12,000 (some report more than 50,000 in the USA), mostly healthy people have died directly from your "safe" vaccine. I guess that "if it only saves one life" nonsense was just rhetoric. 12,000 families buried a loved one that would still be here if they hadn't listened to the "experts". 99.6% survival rate wasn't reassuring enough and now all they have are pictures and memories because vaxxers convinced them the jab was safe. I wish all the vaxxers would spend time with those families and explain the "greater good" and how this isn't all about money.

Here comes the QAnon. Again site your sources. For both figures.

 

[putz]

Here comes the QAnon. Again site your sources. For both figures.

you mean "some report" isn't specific enough?

 

[Sky-Knight]

Here comes the QAnon. Again site your sources. For both figures.

It's probably yet another site misinterpreting the VAERS data that's available publicly. Between Dec 2020 and July 19th 2021 VAERS reports 6,207 deaths among people that received one of the COVID vaccines. Please note this works out to be 0.0018% of doses. So even if 100% of these deaths were caused by the vaccines, COVID which kills at 2% is VASTLY more deadly. Note the placement of that decimal. Round things up to make things easy. 2% vs .002% That's THREE orders of magnitude.

However after controlling for all of the other variables that can cause death, only THREE situations involving blood clots were linked to the J&J shot. And since those unfortunate situations, which were quite real, doctors now know how to treat those clots to prevent it from happening in future cases. Of course, all of this can be avoided by getting the mRNA shot which has no such even minor association.

So we're right back to people on this board, working in a profession that requires the ability to understand math, not doing math and understanding it. And I'm once again left with solid evidence as to why our industry has absolutely NO trust in it. We deserve it... we really do.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I found this. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-12000-idUSL1N2P21DB

The TL : DR of it. If for example you have lung cancer, which is obviously high risk, you are first in line for the vaccine. You get the vaccine and die. OF LUNG CANCER! Because it’s a terminal disease and people die of it. They are tracking people who die who got the vaccine just in case it does cause an issue. Which this data is showing is not the case.

 

[VISA MC]

It's probably yet another site misinterpreting the VAERS data that's available publicly. Between Dec 2020 and July 19th 2021 VAERS reports 6,207 deaths among people that received one of the COVID vaccines. Please note this works out to be 0.0018% of doses. So even if 100% of these deaths were caused by the vaccines, COVID which kills at 2% is VASTLY more deadly. Note the placement of that decimal. Round things up to make things easy. 2% vs .002% That's THREE orders of magnitude.

However after controlling for all of the other variables that can cause death, only THREE situations involving blood clots were linked to the J&J shot. And since those unfortunate situations, which were quite real, doctors now know how to treat those clots to prevent it from happening in future cases. Of course, all of this can be avoided by getting the mRNA shot which has no such even minor association.

So we're right back to people on this board, working in a profession that requires the ability to understand math, not doing math and understanding it. And I'm once again left with solid evidence as to why our industry has absolutely NO trust in it. We deserve it... we really do.

The interesting part to me is they make sure to point out that the deaths reported MAY NOT have been caused by the vaccine.

But all along they have been attributing motorcycle deaths or cancer deaths to covid simply because the person tested positive at the time of death, yet they buried that little tidbit at the time. There was no “Hey look, another 4,000 people died, but a bunch of them were going to die today anyway”

 

[Sky-Knight]

The interesting part to me is they make sure to point out that the deaths reported MAY NOT have been caused by the vaccine.

But all along they have been attributing motorcycle deaths or cancer deaths to covid simply because the person tested positive at the time of death, yet they buried that little tidbit at the time. There was no “Hey look, another 4,000 people died, but a bunch of them were going to die today anyway”

Yeah but the death stats have always been that way. It takes time to process the death numbers into something actionable, which requires a medical skill set to do. So this reality I attribute to social media's influence on our media. Because when you make your money per click, sensationalist propaganda out performs actual news. Something that everyone here should understand on some level, because we all know just how dumb computers are. That doesn't make the data wrong, it doesn't make the casualty numbers wrong. It does however mean those numbers aren't terribly well understood.

(By the way anyone here that's troubleshot anything should understand this. We're taking CPU, RAM, and disk performance metrics along with other statistical scores to try and figure out WTF is going on. If not that, getting a feel for things like the 0x0000007a BSOD usually means bad RAM, despite looking more like disk. We all deal with this same reality, just in different circumstances.)

Still, 2% vs .002% is pretty darned clear. Though I have to admit that 2% is rather dubious... This thing can and does simply go undetected a substantial amount. So I wouldn't be shocked to find it's a much smaller number. But let's say there's actually been twice the actual infections to the known counts, that still makes the death rate around 1% of all infections, which is still a much larger number than .002%.

So it's really easy to say the vaccines are safer than the virus by a huge margin, which is one of the criteria required before the CDC or anyone else in medicine would recommend it.

 

[nlinecomputers]

The interesting part to me is they make sure to point out that the deaths reported MAY NOT have been caused by the vaccine.

But all along they have been attributing motorcycle deaths or cancer deaths to covid simply because the person tested positive at the time of death, yet they buried that little tidbit at the time. There was no “Hey look, another 4,000 people died, but a bunch of them were going to die today anyway”

That’s being done to make sure there’s is no correlation between any death and being infected with COVID-19 or being vaccinated. Such data is for the long term and will not get results until years of study. Where do you think insurance companies get actuary data from?

 

[VISA MC]

That’s being done to make sure there’s is no correlation between any death and being infected with COVID-19 or being vaccinated. Such data is for the long term and will not get results until years of study. Where do you think insurance companies get actuary data from?

I think I may not have expressed myself clearly.

I think it’s interesting that when reporting deaths from Covid, they buried the fact that a person who was decapitated in a car accident but also tested positive for Covid, was considered a Covid death.

However when reporting vaccine deaths, they make it well known that someone who got a vaccine then died the next day from Cancer is not considered a vaccine death. Sort of a double standard there.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@VISA MC Ahh I see what you mean.

And yes you're pointing out a specific instance of sensationalist propaganda being sold as "truth". Again, that stuff makes more money in a social media framework than actual news does. So the "news" is incentivized to do things like this, if they don't... they go broke.

I'd love to go back to the time when people bought news papers... we used to pay for news directly. It was a much better model for this. Any sort of advertisement based support of "news" will always result in the profit motive distorting the facts. Something you can plainly see in everything, much less the COVID reporting details.

What you're seeing is deliberate, and it's no vast conspiracy either. It's just the efforts of private corporations serving in our capitalist system.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I think I may not have expressed myself clearly.

I think it’s interesting that when reporting deaths from Covid, they buried the fact that a person who was decapitated in a car accident but also tested positive for Covid, was considered a Covid death.

However when reporting vaccine deaths, they make it well known that someone who got a vaccine then died the next day from Cancer is not considered a vaccine death. Sort of a double standard there.

Except that is not happening. That’s one of those QAnon lies that has been debunked multiple times.

It has its bases in deliberately misinterpreted data. A man gets COVID-19 gets hospitalized put on a vent and then has a heart attack in the ICU. What killed him? The heart attack, duh. Not so clear. Was his heart attack brought on because of his having COVID-19 or would he had died of a heart attack anyway, because he was overweight had high cholesterol and didn’t exercise much. Because COVID-19 is so debilitating it is pretty easy to see cause and effect here. But don’t let common sense overrule your need to latch onto a conspiracy theory.

 

[britechguy]

I'd love to go back to the time when people bought news papers... we used to pay for news directly.

I don't care about that, so much (although I do the online equivalent), as I wish that "consider the source" was the very, very first thing in critical thinking.

The profession of journalism, even in the digital age, still has the attributes when what it was working with was print, at least when it comes to reporting on facts and science. Nothing's 100%, but the kind of review and vetting that stuff that the New York Times, Washington Post, Times of London, Le Monde, etc., publish is extensive. The role of the professional press as gatekeeper of the truth/facts has been muddied in the age of infotainment, but when it comes to reporting on science news, you can bet I'll believe what I read/hear/see in the NYT, Time, NPR, PBS, NBC, ABC, and CBS news outlets and trust it. The stuff on Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Twitter, etc., is not even worth considering, as it's completely unvetted and even cursory readings over time show that those are largely venues for the unhinged.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Oh same example. Except substitute COVID with traffic accident. Man gets in a bad traffic accident, t boned by a DUI, HE is rushed to the ER and has a heart attack and dies in the ER. What killed him? His heart attack or the drunk driver? I guarantee what the District attorney will conclude.

 

[VISA MC]

Except that is not happening. That’s one of those QAnon lies that has been debunked multiple times.

It has its bases in deliberately misinterpreted data. A man gets COVID-19 gets hospitalized put on a vent and then has a heart attack in the ICU. What killed him? The heart attack, duh. Not so clear. Was his heart attack brought on because of his having COVID-19 or would he had died of a heart attack anyway, because he was overweight had high cholesterol and didn’t exercise much. Because COVID-19 is so debilitating it is pretty easy to see cause and effect here. But don’t let common sense overrule your need to latch onto a conspiracy theory.

Here is the data from CDC.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

They plainly state that only 5% of reported deaths, Covid was the only cause of death. Now, I understand Covid may have sped up other conditions, but heart failure, diabetes, sepsis and several others are on the list.

Again, did the folks die from sepsis they contracted while they were hospitalized with Covid? We don’t know that.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Here is the data from CDC.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

They plainly state that only 5% of reported deaths, Covid was the only cause of death. Now, I understand Covid may have sped up other conditions, but heart failure, diabetes, sepsis and several others are on the list.

Again, did the folks die from sepsis they contracted while they were hospitalized with Covid? We don’t know that.

And yet you are deliberately ignoring it. They would not gotten sepsis had they not been hospitalized and you know that but you are choosing to deliberately twist it for you own biased agenda.

 

[VISA MC]

And yet you are deliberately ignoring it. They would not gotten sepsis had they not been hospitalized and you know that but you are choosing to deliberately twist it for you own biased agenda.

So the people that died from Diabetes wouldn’t have gotten that if they weren’t hospitalized either? What about the 21,000 folks that died of Alzheimer’s? By your theory, they must’ve developed that during their Covid stay as well?
Hospitalizations are just one source of sepsis. You can get it without being in a hospital.

 

[Sky-Knight]

So the people that died from Diabetes wouldn’t have gotten that if they weren’t hospitalized either? What about the 21,000 folks that died of Alzheimer’s? By your theory, they must’ve developed that during their Covid stay as well?
Hospitalizations are just one source of sepsis. You can get it without being in a hospital.

These are cases where a doctor is saying that if COVID hadn't happened, despite the other conditions they'd still be breathing at the time they died. There's no statement as to how much longer they'd be alive with everything else. The statement is simply that had COVID not been a thing, they'd not have died.

 

[britechguy]

So the people that died from Diabetes wouldn’t have gotten that if they weren’t hospitalized either? What about the 21,000 folks that died of Alzheimer’s? By your theory, they must’ve developed that during their Covid stay as well?
Hospitalizations are just one source of sepsis. You can get it without being in a hospital.

When there is a lack of clarity regarding cause of death, I trust that the medical professionals who have to handle this all the time, and have for years, are awfully darned good at teasing out "the most likely cause of death."

Comorbidities have existed long before the age of Covid-19, and the need to determine primary cause of death has, too.

Those that do this for a living do this for a living. You don't, and don't have the background or experience that makes substituting your judgment for theirs valid in any way.

 

[nlinecomputers]

So the people that died from Diabetes wouldn’t have gotten that if they weren’t hospitalized either? What about the 21,000 folks that died of Alzheimer’s? By your theory, they must’ve developed that during their Covid stay as well?
Hospitalizations are just one source of sepsis. You can get it without being in a hospital.

Diabetes and Alzheimer’s are chronic conditions. They are not infectious and they are long scale. A heart attack, an injury, or an infection like COVID-19 are acute. A rapid debilitating change in conditions from your status quo. Even if your status quo is a slowly debilitating disease. Cause of death will follow the acute condition especially if that condition can occur even in normally heathy people. Sepsis or pneumonia almost never attack a healthy person. You have to have some other factor that debilitated you in order to catch it. My dad died of pneumonia but he wouldn’t have had pneumonia if not for the Stage 4 Small Cell Lung Cancer. By your standards he only died of pneumonia. I know 8 people that have died of COVID-19. Other things may have brought them to the end but there’s no doubt that they would be alive if not for that infection.

 

[Sky-Knight]

And even if you survive COVID, honestly the larger horror for me is this "Brain Fog" mess. It's causing swelling in the brain that brings on dementia, or alzheimer's like symptoms. I earn my living with my mind, my family would be financially destroyed if I developed this condition.

No insurance lasts years on end without payment... My wife has no degree to go to work on the scale I do, and even if she did I wouldn't have the mental capacity to manage the medical realities of my kids for the trade.

This is how generational wealth, comes to a screeching halt. How entire economies of scale fall flat on their face.

All in the face of a common cold, running rampant because people think they're smarter than the doctors that are simply asking them to go get a shot they already paid for via their taxes.

 

[VISA MC]

Diabetes and Alzheimer’s are chronic conditions. They are not infectious and they are long scale. A heart attack, an injury, or an infection like COVID-19 are acute. A rapid debilitating change in conditions from your status quo. Even if your status quo is a slowly debilitating disease. Cause of death will follow the acute condition especially if that condition can occur even in normally heathy people. Sepsis or pneumonia almost never attack a healthy person. You have to have some other factor that debilitated you in order to catch it. My dad died of pneumonia but he wouldn’t have had pneumonia if not for the Stage 4 Small Cell Lung Cancer. By your standards he only died of pneumonia. I know 8 people that have died of COVID-19. Other things may have brought them to the end but there’s no doubt that they would be alive if not for that infection.

So what you are saying is every person that has died from a heart attack, diabetes, Alzheimer’s. Dementia etc. all would still be alive had they not been sick with something else?

There’s no way that’s accurate. These people were going to die anyway, their cancer was slowly progressing. Their Alzheimer’s or dementia was slowly progressing. Now whether or not Covid accelerated that, that we do not know and it is on a case by case basis.