Would you take a Coronavirus Vaccine

[Sky-Knight]

So what you are saying is every person that has died from a heart attack, diabetes, Alzheimer’s. Dementia etc. all would still be alive had they not been sick with something else?

There’s no way that’s accurate. These people were going to die anyway, their cancer was slowly progressing. Their Alzheimer’s or dementia was slowly progressing. Now whether or not Covid accelerated that, that we do not know and it is on a case by case basis.

Yes? Because we all started dying sometime after conception and before we were born. It's the chemical destination determined by the machinery of life we refer to as DNA. Understanding what accelerates the process involves a ton more data than what can be condensed into a simple boolean operation.

This isn't a true or false, it's a nested if statement that never ends.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Now whether or not Covid accelerated that, that we do not know and it is on a case by case basis.

I’m sorry but that is bullsh!t. If I infect you with Smallpox are you going to claim you died of diabetes? You are simply deliberately denying the seriousness of COVID.

 

[britechguy]

So what you are saying is every person that has died from a heart attack, diabetes, Alzheimer’s. Dementia etc. all would still be alive had they not been sick with something else?

No, that's not what he said. But it's characteristic of your lack of reading comprehension for exactly what was said, which boils down to: In the case of comorbidities there is virtually always one that will be considered to be the primary cause of death.

My mother has late stage dementia. Were she to contract Covid, and die next week in the hospital, the probability that it was the dementia that actually killed her would be nearly zero. My father's family had a history of heart problems, particularly congestive heart failure, (he's been deceased since 2000) but were someone like him to go into the hospital, with no congestive heart failure active, and with a Covid infection well known to cause systemic problems of all sorts with way more than breathing, were he to develop congestive heart failure the probability of that having occurred absent the Covid to precipitate it is nearly zero, too.

It's really not that difficult. And Covid is far from the only illness where this sort of determination is made. Flu can and does kill, and very often those it can and does kill have all sorts of comorbidities, but when those were not such that they were likely to be imminent causes of death prior to catching the flu, flu is considered to be the cause of death. 'Twas ever thus, and that's because this makes perfect sense.

 

[britechguy]

You are simply deliberately denying the seriousness of COVID.

And, as bad as that, he's deliberately denying the way these determinations have been made since long before Covid and will continue to be made long after it.

It's willful stupidity.

 

[VISA MC]

I’m sorry but that is bullsh!t. If I infect you with Smallpox are you going to claim you died of diabetes? You are simply deliberately denying the seriousness of COVID.

Depends on the timeline.
If I was given 8 months to live in January due to pancreatic cancer, have been in rapid steady decline for the last month and die tomorrow after being infected with Covid yesterday, it’s fairly safe to say that was caused by the cancer, not by Covid. Hence why I said case by case basis.

Edited to add: So your belief is if I am bleeding out in an ambulance to the hospital with a low probability of surviving and find out I have Covid, that’s what you think killed me?

There are official statements saying that’s exactly what happened. Including auto accidents. If the person tested positive for Covid, it was stamped a Covid death. I will cite sources later when I get back home.

 

[britechguy]

Depends on the timeline.
If I was given 8 months to live in January due to pancreatic cancer, have been in rapid steady decline for the last month and die tomorrow after being infected with Covid yesterday, it’s fairly safe to say that was caused by the cancer, not by Covid. Hence why I said case by case basis.

And, having been a medical practitioner, I can pretty well assure you that in that scenario, where the Covid infection was either asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic, your cause of death would be listed as pancreatic cancer.

Data would also be collected about the fact you were positive for Covid, as it must when a novel pathogen is being tracked, but it wouldn't be noted as your cause of death.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Depends on the timeline.
If I was given 8 months to live in January due to pancreatic cancer, have been in rapid steady decline for the last month and die tomorrow after being infected with Covid yesterday, it’s fairly safe to say that was caused by the cancer, not by Covid. Hence why I said case by case basis.

Substitute Small Pox for Covid. Are you really going to say you died of cancer? Covid only becomes irrelevant in your example if it becomes so common at the end of a cancer illness to be a natural and expected result of the disease. Like pneumonia is. Heathy people do not get pneumonia. It’s almost always the result of falling ill after some other condition deteriorated. Perfectly healthy people are dying of Covid as are people who do have chronic illnesses but are otherwise in good shape.

Now perhaps one day Covid will become like pneumonia and only affect the chronically ill in late stages of their disease. WE ARE NOT THERE YET!

 

[VISA MC]

Source from earlier:


Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified

(CHICAGO) WEEK - State Health officials have acknowledged a bending of the "Covid Curve" seeing smaller spikes in positive cases, or rather, not as exponential of a jump as recorded weeks ago when virus testing capability was much lower. Additionally, despite the additional virus-related deaths...

week.com

 

[britechguy]

Yes, and? Illinois has "bent the curve." Different venues do have differing standards for how things get recorded. This is hardly new news.

And given the number of undiagnosed Covid cases that I haven't seen any serious medical source believe does not exist, those examples are but drops in the proverbial statistical bucket.

The opening line of the report you reference is most telling: State Health officials have acknowledged a bending of the "Covid Curve" seeing smaller spikes in positive cases, or rather, not as exponential of a jump as recorded weeks ago when virus testing capability was much lower.

The bending resulted in smaller spikes, and acknowledges the changes in testing availability and capacity being much lower had what would have been a depressing effect on counts, as you can't count what you can't confirm.

With this, I'm done responding to you, specifically. Please have a conversation with your PCP or other medical practitioner that you trust about this, if that is something that even has the possibility of persuading you. No matter how much information is presented to you that counters your current beliefs, you cherry-pick what's out there to reinforce them, and don't even take in what can be deduced from what they contain.

 

[Sky-Knight]

I'll further add that skepticism is generally healthy. But do you know who the largest skeptics are? The data scientists that built these models in cooperation with the doctors that are attempting to cure this plague.

Yes, there's a financial motive to all this. And yes that's normal. And furthermore the last I checked...was a good thing in capitalist systems.

Unless that is one is making the case we should be socialist?

That's where this rabbit hole ends... it's not logical... and way off course.

 

[VISA MC]

TL;DR
I merely said it was interesting how vaccine deaths are blatantly obviously pointed out that they didn’t die ONLY because of the vaccine, however Covid deaths this was never made obvious. Then I was accused of following the Q Annon bs and called stupid. I was told boldly “that isn’t happening”. Cited sources where federal, state and medical officials all said it was in fact happening. Sources rejected.

Funny how that all played out.

 

[nlinecomputers]

As I read this those numbers have been revised down.

Ezike Defends Illinois Coronavirus Death Statistics, Says Data Constantly Scrutinized

While the accuracy of the number of coronavirus-related fatalities in Illinois has been a source of discussion and debate since the pandemic began, health officials say that they are constantly auditing the number of fatalities to ensure as accurate of a count as possible. Dr. Ngozi Ezike, the...

www.nbcchicago.com

 

[britechguy]

It's also amusing that anyone would not realize that "the numbers" will be in constant flux in the case of a worldwide pandemic with a novel infectious agent.

We're trying to get some sort of baseline data as we go, and as errors in methodology are recognized, they get corrected (and the numbers revised in light of what the corrections would indicate about the existing dataset). And now, with the variants - delta in particular at the moment - it's clear that the communicability of each can be quite different than the others. That's going to have a huge impact on numbers going forward as the latest variant continues to spread. And history will repeat itself in this regard if a new variant emerges that's more infectious than delta is, and vaccination rates remain nearly as low as they are now.

 

[Sky-Knight]

And somewhere along the line... we'll need boosters too. Heck, with Delta it looks like we could use them now.

 

[britechguy]

Heck, with Delta it looks like we could use them now.

And you can be sure that, over time, any boosters will use "freshly engineered" mRNA that mimics the latest variants as closely as it can. And that's one of the beauties of this particular vaccine technology, it is, truly, "designer" in its ability to target the desired immune response with exquisite precision (and minimal risk - there will never be "accidental infections" like those that happened to some people way back when from weakened virus vaccines). And those changes can be introduced with confidence, too.

 

[Sky-Knight]

And you can be sure that, over time, any boosters will use "freshly engineered" mRNA that mimics the latest variants as closely as it can. And that's one of the beauties of this particular vaccine technology, it is, truly, "designer" in its ability to target the desired immune response with exquisite precision (and minimal risk - there will never be "accidental infections" like those that happened to some people way back when from weakened virus vaccines). And those changes can be introduced with confidence, too.

Not to mention custom formulations to get cancer patient's immune systems to attack their cancers... and possibly, if we can figure out how to make it work in reverse... halt immune response we don't want that causes ugly things...

One of the minds behind the mRNA tech in the Pizer and Moderna shots happens to have type 1 diabetes. And he's still going... On his hit list? Adapting mRNA technology into a pan-coronavirus vaccine to put SARS to bed for good. Meanwhile he's working on HIV, Flu, Genital Herpes, Malaria, and the Norovirus. Because... stopping ONE type of common cold isn't enough, he's after TWO of them.

And just because he can, he's also trying to adapt it for gene therapy work to cure sickle cell anemia.

Diamyd: Making Progress on a Type 1 Diabetes Vaccine

Swedish biotech startup Diamyd Medical is kicking off large-scale studies of a vaccine to stop type 1 diabetes in its tracks.

www.healthline.com

This man holds the future of my boys in his hands, and the fact that he shares the same medical condition is a massive source of comfort. So let the Luddites drag their feet. My family is staring at a bright future free of diseases of all kinds. This technology has been inspiring hope since the first day I caught wind of it in 2014. All these emergency use authorizations just opened the flood gates to all sorts of wonderful things. But that's not good enough for some for some idiot reason.

 

[nlinecomputers]

And somewhere along the line... we'll need boosters too. Heck, with Delta it looks like we could use them now.

And it’s entirely possible that Delta maybe somewhat resistant to the vaccines. But the antivaxxers will claim that is proof of the vaccine hoax while conveniently ignoring if not flat denying how well it works against the other strains. We may need new vaccines to cover this just like they retool your influenza vaccines each year.

 

[Sky-Knight]

And it’s entirely possible that Delta maybe somewhat resistant to the vaccines. But the antivaxxers will claim that is proof of the vaccine hoax while conveniently ignoring if not flat denying how well it works against the other strains. We may need new vaccines to cover this just like they retool your influenza vaccines each year.

It's an RNA virus... the common cold. I assumed this going in. Heck, I'm surprised the shots last a year!

 

[pctechforhire]

I'm glad to see that there are other logically minded critical thinkers in here now. With ALL of the data that has been available now, I do NOT see how anyone would agree that masks do anything, or that the gene therapy is actually helping. It is beyond me that people still believe any of that. Even the 1918 pandemic didn't last this long. And that actually was more deadly. This thing is nothing more than the flu. PCR test can't even tell the difference between covid and the flu. But if you want to wear a mask, or take the jab, go for it. If they work, you'll be fine. Just leave the rest of us critical thinkers alone.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I'm glad to see that there are other logically minded critical thinkers in here now. With ALL of the data that has been available now, I do NOT see how anyone would agree that masks do anything, or that the gene therapy is actually helping. It is beyond me that people still believe any of that. Even the 1918 pandemic didn't last this long. And that actually was more deadly. This thing is nothing more than the flu. PCR test can't even tell the difference between covid and the flu. But if you want to wear a mask, or take the jab, go for it. If they work, you'll be fine. Just leave the rest of us critical thinkers alone.

Covid has been here for 18 months. The Spanish Flu ran it's course in 26 months. The fact that you can't do basic math tells me all we need to know about your critical thinking skills.