Would you take a Coronavirus Vaccine

[britechguy]

THAT blasting a hole into your arm. A hole that would scar and leave behind a mark still seen today on many recipients.

Sorry, but, no. The needles used in those guns were tiny, and the pnuematic force was to the needle only. The scars you see on the arms of those vaccinated against smallpox (and I'm one of them) no matter what needle method was used is the direct result of the expected reaction at the site of innoculation to the vaccine itself. That's one of the reasons that long after the mass public vaccination efforts the vaccine was still given in the upper arm: it made it a simple matter to easily see "the mark" on the vast majority of those who were actually vaccinated.

It had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with those guns.

 

[britechguy]

Others that are only what I can describe as intentionally ignorant at this point, want to "just wait a bit more".

Exactly: willful stupidity. At this juncture in the worldwide rollout of the Covid-19 vaccines there is a way more than just statistically valid sample size on which one (even as a casual observer) can determine the side effects and after effects of this vaccine. Like all vaccines (or any medical intervention, for that matter) there is a small, in this case minutely small, number of people for whom it will be problematic. The probability of your being one of those people is far, far smaller than the likelihood that you'll actually catch the pathogen it protects against and have issues afterward or die.

Part of willful stupidity is refusing to understand risks accurately. And there is no excuse for that - none.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@britechguy Especially since the allergy risk to PFizer and Moderna can be assessed by a family doctor with a basic test done in office.

So you can, if you're worried... schedule an appointment to determine if you're allergic before you get the shot, and it doesn't even take that much more time than just getting the shot!

 

[britechguy]

And, to my knowledge, neither the Pfizer nor Moderna vaccines have been associated with anything other than mild side effects, if that.

Even the J&J/Jannsen and Astra-Zeneca/Oxford vaccines have probabilities of as yet unproven to be causal reactions that are so much smaller than the probabilities of negative outcomes from Covid that it's a no-brainer, if that's the only choice you have, that getting the vaccine is what you do to protect your own life and that of others.

But if I were in any way concerned about either the J&J or Astra-Zeneca (not available in the USA, by the way) then I'd rush out to find the Pfizer or Moderna one instead.

Today's news from the CDC and change in masking requirements for those fully vaccinated (you don't need one except in very crowded settings or on things like airplanes, trains, busses and when visiting hospitals) would be enough, in and of itself, to convince me if I weren't convinced by the mass of data already. I cannot wait to resume something very similar to normal pre-Covid life. And I've taken the steps necessary to make doing so safe for myself and others in contact with me.

 

[Romaniac]

Already have.

Millions have gotten the shots, of whatever manufacturer (the big 3 anyway); it's very very very unlikley that anyone hesitating is SO SPECIAL that they will have some side effect that is worse than catching the virus and playing that particular russian roulette.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@britechguy https://jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...ign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=021221

TLDR: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines see 47 and 19 cases of anaphylaxis out of ~10 million and ~7.5 million doses, respectively. The majority of reactions occurred within ten minutes of receiving the vaccine.

So it does happen, but yes it's statistically zero, and if you have a fear that this might happen to you... your GP has an allergy strip that's cheap, and works in 5min to rule it out.

 

[britechguy]

but yes it's statistically zero

Which is how one looks at risk analysis. I've actually mentioned the exceedingly rare, and statistically insignificant, incidents of anaphylaxis on one of these threads (maybe this one), and the precautionary measures related to same have been in place for months now (before I got my shot in early March) and the standard treatment for same is consistently effective.

The risks from remaining unvaccinated are far more serious, and likely to occur, than any serious adverse reactions are.

 

[Sky-Knight]

My 16 year old got her first shot Wednesday, my 13 year old got his first shot yesterday.

We're a bit more than 12 hours later and my 13 year old's blood sugar hasn't even moved... other than a sore arm round 1 has done nothing to either of them.

 

[britechguy]

other than a sore arm round 1 has done nothing to either of them.

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!! Don't you know that the vaccine turns you gay!! [See Kimmel's "Maxine the Vaccine" sketch from last night]. You should be so lucky!

 

[Sky-Knight]

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!! Don't you know that the vaccine turns you gay!! [See Kimmel's "Maxine the Vaccine" sketch from last night]. You should be so lucky!

Right?

Also I forgot to mention that appointments for 12 and up started yesterday... so my son got in the first day it was possible to do so. Both of them were handled by a local clinic inside a grocery store we've used for vaccinations for ages. So they aren't being handled by a state pod, they're being handled by essentially our normal doctor.

Because we have that many appointment options, there's practically no line. We've reached the point where vaccine availability at least in my area is as easy as "you want fries with that?".

 

[Galdorf]

There are a sizeable amounts of fully vaccinated people in the the hospital with new delta variant some are on respirators they were immunocomprimised. Millions of people are taking drugs to suppress the immune system ranging from organ transplants to severe arthritis.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7940281/foothills-covid-19-delta-cases-fully-vaccinated/

About 330k reports of fully vaccinated world wide atm about 2k are in Canada they need to ajdust the vaccine for this new variant soon as numbers of infect by covid 60% are now delta variant and is rising fast as there are many new reports on news across Canada.

 

[wavey]

There are a sizeable amounts of fully vaccinated people in the the hospital with new delta variant some are on respirators they were immunocomprimised. Millions of people are taking drugs to suppress the immune system ranging from organ transplants to severe arthritis.

Too vague, describe 'sizeable' and 'some'.

 

[SAFCasper]

There are a sizeable amounts of fully vaccinated people in the the hospital with new delta variant some are on respirators they were immunocomprimised. Millions of people are taking drugs to suppress the immune system ranging from organ transplants to severe arthritis.

So I'll second @wavey in asking - define sizeable? Because nobody has ever claimed vaccines are 100% effective.

Latest studies of Pfizer showed 88% efficacy against symptomatic disease from the Delta variant. This is once fully vaccinated, which means at least 3 weeks after your second dose.

105,000+ new cases in the previous 7 days (USA) and an estimate of 6% now being the Delta variant = 6,300 Delta cases

42% of the population are fully vaccinated. 42% of 6,300 = 2,646 fully vaccinated people contracted the Delta variant in the past 7 days.

So with 2,646 cases and 88% efficacy; to see a few hundred go on to be hospitalised is fully expected. If it's multiple thousands then we should be very worried, but show me the evidence to support the numbers first.


PS.
One fact that is concerning - a single dose of Pfizer showed only 33% efficacy against symptomatic disease from the Delta variant. So second doses are more important than ever now.

PPS.
I finally have a date for my first vaccine next week! Expect I'll be getting Pfizer but they haven't told me yet.

 

[nlinecomputers]

There are a sizeable amounts of fully vaccinated people in the the hospital with new delta variant some are on respirators they were immunocomprimised. Millions of people are taking drugs to suppress the immune system ranging from organ transplants to severe arthritis.

Do you have a source for this? Or is it just pure bullsh!t like most of your posts.

 

[britechguy]

There are a sizeable amounts of fully vaccinated people in the the hospital with new delta variant some are on respirators they were immunocomprimised. Millions of people are taking drugs to suppress the immune system ranging from organ transplants to severe arthritis.

You have never, once, produced a single credible citation for these amazing assertions you're so willing to put forth. No doubt the trend will continue.

But it is no surprise, at all, that those who are on immune system suppression drugs are far more susceptible to all infectious agents, and that they don't tend to form antibody responses nearly so robustly. This is not "stop the presses" news. It's not even news.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Yeah, immune compromised people are... well compromised! We're all supposed to be getting the shot to protect them. The fact that this population exists is reason to GET THE SHOT. Not say it doesn't work...

This is a classic failure of critical thinking. One I should be more upset about, but I've fallen for it myself in the past. Only the chronic illness that assaulted my home woke me from that stupidity.

88% efficacy from a variant a year after the formulation is pretty good! But it does mean we'll need annual boosters just like we do with Flu.

I forgot to come back here and report both my 16 and 13 year olds got their second shots a week or two ago. Both had high fevers the next day, and generally felt miserable. They were back on their feet a day later. So the trend of a Netflix and Chill day continues.

Fascinatingly... my 13 year old is also my most recent Type 1. I'm not sure if he's still honeymooning, but that vaccine didn't do squat to his blood sugar. Typically vaccines make me adjust treatment, not for him. We'll see how things go with the 10 year old when he becomes eligible later this year, he's far more fragile. Blood sugar swings happen during the normal course of infection of any virus. So I can see in my son's numbers he's sick before he shows symptoms. Typically vaccines emulate this pattern, but don't generate as aggressive of a swing. So I was rather surprised when my 13 year old's needle didn't even twitch.

 

[britechguy]

Yeah, immune compromised people are... well compromised! We're all supposed to be getting the shot to protect them. The fact that this population exists is reason to GET THE SHOT.

This bears repeating, again and again. The whole concept of herd immunity revolves around having enough people who can be immunized (or with immunity secondary to having had a given infection) surrounding those who can't such that an infection that is not already "right there" can get there.

We see breakdowns in this for what were once more common illnesses that had been virtually eliminated in pockets where immunization rates against those illnesses have fallen. Measles being the best example. If everyone who can be immunized is immunized, they can't serve as vectors for infection. They're an actual major buffer zone between those who cannot be immunized and whoever "somewhere, out there" may be infected and in the infectious stage of the illness.

I can be around those with measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox (eradicated, though, so that's not gonna happen), chickenpox, hepatitus A and B, and a number of other things and not only have a very near zero, if not zero, possibility of infection myself, but the same for being able to carry and transmit to others.

Vaccines work in populations by "cutting off the oxygen to the fire" such that "the infection fire" has nothing to feed it. There are always those who cannot be vaccinated, and this effect protects them, too, because those surrounding them cannot become vectors.

This has always been the principle behind vaccines at the population level. And vaccines are not particularly effective at the population level unless enough of the population receives them. If only a small percentage of a given population gets immunized, that still leaves the majority as "the oxygen" for "the infection fire" which will, invariably, keep on raging (or will until enough people have died and enough others have survived the given vector such that population level herd immunity is reached - and what sane person proposes that as a moral or sensible option?).

 

[britechguy]

By the way, contrary to the opinion in certain circles, even if you've recovered from Covid-19 it's recommended that you get immunized as well.

Apparently research is showing that the immune response to the actual illness after recovery is both less robust, and more "variant centric," than what one gets from the vaccines.

There was a long segment on NPR yesterday where this was being discussed (or maybe it was the day before).

 

[AML]

Just received my second dose yesterday. Pfizer. No side effects.

 

[cypress]

I got my 2nd shot on June 7th and it wiped me out for a good 36 hours. But after that I was back at it again, I don't regret getting it.