Would you take a Coronavirus Vaccine

[Sky-Knight]

Well it's Friday now, and all ill effects are gone except a tiny amount of tension at the injection site. This again probably has more to do with my psychosomatic response to needles than the actual vaccine. My wife was completely back to normal Thursday morning. So, 24 hours and done for shot 1 for both of us basically.

 

[britechguy]

It's the second one that kicks your butt.

I meant to respond to this, but it is a very small percentage that experiences butt-kicking after the 2nd shot.

Even within my extended circle (not exactly a statistically valid sample) only 2 of somewhere in the area of 100 people have experienced any significant (as in, I'm sick and feeling like crap for several days) effects after the 2nd shot. And the actual statistically valid sample sizes suggest that butt-kicking reactions are not all that common.

In the facility my Mom lives in now I don't think they had any really adverse reactions in the residents or staff after the 2nd of the 2-shot protocol, and that's in a mostly geriatric population.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I meant to respond to this, but it is a very small percentage that experiences butt-kicking after the 2nd shot.

Even within my extended circle (not exactly a statistically valid sample) only 2 of somewhere in the area of 100 people have experienced any significant (as in, I'm sick and feeling like crap for several days) effects after the 2nd shot. And the actual statistically valid sample sizes suggest that butt-kicking reactions are not all that common.

In the facility my Mom lives in now I don't think they had any really adverse reactions in the residents or staff after the 2nd of the 2-shot protocol, and that's in a mostly geriatric population.

I’ve had both shots, Pfizer, and had a very sore arm after the first shot but no other effects from either.

 

[Galdorf]

I’ve had both shots, Pfizer, and had a very sore arm after the first shot but no other effects from either.

Yes i will take either one but not astrazeneca as i have issues with clots i don`t want to take the chance.

 

[alluseridsrejected]

Not only NO, but HELL NO!

The Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines are the first vaccines to be activated by mRNA — and would not have been possible without the invention of the gene editing technology known as CRISPR.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...explores-ethics-of-rewriting-the-code-of-life

I also find it hillarious that those criticizing anyone not willing take these vaccines likely avoid GMOs at all costs even though the science says they are safe. Don't bother responding with your harsh criticisms. I won't respond as I avoid GMOs at all costs. Especially the walking/talking/typing type.

 

[Computer Bloke]

Don't bother responding with your harsh criticisms. I won't respond

Excellent.

Hey guys, it's open season on the idiot who doesn't understand how vaccines work and probably didn't even read the article he's quoting!

 

[GTP]

 

[britechguy]

And the very idea that virtually anyone knows, in any meaningful sense of the phrase "to know," what's in the various medicines, vaccines, and, as you've pointed out, things we eat is ridiculous.

In a modern, industrialized society where divisions of labor have existed for multiple generations, and where specialized knowledge becomes more and more specialized and less and less easy to understand if that's not your area of expertise, it's just damned idiotic to believe that you (and I include me) can make a truly fully informed decision. We do the best with what we can understand, knowing that we do not and likely never will fully understand many things we must make choices about.

There is a reason that, while I have conversations with my doctor, lawyer, mechanic, and many other professionals to the extent that I can get to know something, I don't ever substitute my judgment in their areas of expertise with my own. What's the point of consulting subject matter experts if you're constantly willing to believe you know better than they do?

 

[Computer Bloke]

What's the point of consulting subject matter experts if you're constantly willing to believe you know better than they do?

Agreed, but it's definitely possible for a layperson with an obscure medical condition to know a lot more about it than a general practitioner - and a good GP will recognize that.

 

[britechguy]

Agreed, but it's definitely possible for a layperson with an obscure medical condition to know a lot more about it than a general practitioner - and a good GP will recognize that.

Also agreed. There are always exceptions that prove the rule, and this is indeed one of them.

 

[Computer Bloke]

Also agreed.

Damnit. Why is everyone being so nice today?

 

[britechguy]

Why is everyone being so nice today?

Because legitmate counterpoints deserve to be met with respect and consideration you IDIOT!! (sorry, I just couldn't help that last part, as I don't want to get a reputation for being so nice.)

 

[Sky-Knight]

I'm having to learn to remove myself from situations like the above... due to my now TWO type 1 diabetic sons, I can't get out of bed in the morning without very advanced medicine. Medicine that's objectively terrifying and wonderful at the same time. Have you looked into how they make modern insulin? Anyone with half a brain that reads that process should hear a voice in their heads repeating something along the lines of... "Do you want zombies?!? Because this is how we make zombies!" Genetically modified ecoli spitting out proteins that run through a chemical bath? And I'm shooting two boys up with the stuff 5-6 times a day to keep them breathing!

And while I have anti-vax family members that just can't / won't get it... I'm stuck dealing with the fact that these two boys with known defective immune systems can't be around their cousins anymore. Their cousins know this, and they know WHY. So I can at least rest relatively assured in the knowledge that this stupidity will die once the next generation gets olds enough. That doesn't really help dampen the deep and violent urge to punch these people dead in the face for threatening the lives of those around them... but such reactions while fun, are rarely positive or productive.

Then there's anti-GMO thing just makes me laugh. We have orange carrots because the Dutch "genetically modified" carrots via selective breeding to make them such. Human beings have been mucking with the genetic makeup of animals and plants for longer than recorded history. So when someone says they don't eat GMO, the first thing my brain wonders is how they can love that little ankle biter dog they carry around so much... because that thing wouldn't exist if not for genetic modification.

And more to the point... our digestive system doesn't absorb DNA. It's a really hostile place in there... if it weren't so we'd all be dead 1000 times over. And all of this is besides the point because humans have mucked with everything genetically for so long, there is literally nothing left on this blue marble to consume that is "pure". So when people say GMO, I always have to ask WTF they're talking about. Conversely when people say "organic" I ask the same question. It's like trying to get someone to define "assault weapon" or "porn" it can't be done!

All of this is technology... and everyone here should be selling and working on technology every day. So we of any population I would think would be less prone to these sorts of mistakes. But, humans have to human.

 

[SAFCasper]

A lot of discussion recently around AstraZeneca in the UK. Seems very on-topic.

Shortened version of what's happening:

• UK drugs regulator has advised under 30's are offered an alternate choice of vaccination based on the ongoing blood clot evidence.
• Re-emphasising the phrase "alternate choice." AZ has not been suspended and will continue to be delivered. This is simply an additional choice for those who would refuse AZ over health concerns.
• Under 30's were chosen because they appear to be at higher risk of developing clots while at a drastically lower risk of dying from COVID-19. So their risk/benefit ratio is much higher than someone over 30.
• UK won't even begin vaccinating under 30's en masse until roughly June. So this could be changed again before it even truly begins.
• The regulator said this was not proof the jab had caused the clots. There is no hard evidence linking AZ to blood clots but at the same time they acknowledge an irregularity in the numbers so it cannot 100% be ruled out until further research is done. So they are being cautious just in case.

BBC does a good summary of it here:
AstraZeneca vaccine: How do you weigh up the risks and benefits? - BBC News

Some good quotes from the article:
"So, let's take a figure of 10 million imaginary people. Regulators are continuously combing through the details of the rare clots that have occurred to work out how many might be caused by vaccination. Assuming the worst - that they all are - we can do some ballpark calculations to get a sense of the risks.

Based on the figures announced today by the UK medicines regulator, if 10 million imaginary people were given the AZ vaccine you might expect to see 40 of these clots - with about 10 clots having fatal consequences.

Ten deaths out of 10 million people vaccinated is a one-in-a-million chance."

"If you delayed vaccinations for our 10 million people by a week, about 16,000 might catch coronavirus, based on current levels of the virus.
If they were all older adults, say 60-year-olds, maybe 1,000 would end up in hospital and 300 of them might be expected to die, far more than the 10 deaths from clots after vaccination that we mentioned earlier.

But for younger adults the risks of hospitalisation or death are considerably lower. Given the same number of infected 40-year-olds, 16 might be expected to die. And the number of expected fatalities would be even lower for people in their 20s and 30s. So for younger age groups the choice over whether to have the AZ vaccine is not as clear cut, especially when there are so many uncertainties in all these figures."

And to finish I'll highlight again these calculations are based on:
- "Assuming the worst" that all blood clots found are caused by AZ.
- Current levels of the virus in the UK, which are the lowest they have been in 7-8 months. Largely due to over 50% of our population now being vaccinated!

 

[TechLady]

I had Moderna, because that's what was available to me first. Rest of the family got Pfizer. I had actual covid in January; the kids brought it home from their grocery store jobs. It's real easy to act like Mr. Tough Guy (alma mater: YouTube University) if you didn't actually contract the real thing. I suspect half the people whining about "untested technology" would be screaming for it by day two. It is beyond brutal. Not only does Covid not care how healthy you think you are, but anti-vaxxing utterly disregards your public duty not to spread it around. And the variants make that even more imperative. I know there's techs here that will never agree that public duty is a thing, and I honestly have nothing to say to those people. But for the rest of us...

YAY SCIENCE!

 

[Sky-Knight]

My wife and I are both fully vaccinated via PFizer, my 16 year old daughter got her first round yesterday, my 13 year old son gets his first round tomorrow. 2nd shot felt like a minor cold the day after for about half the day for my wife and I.

The 13 year old is the recently diagnosed Type 1... So we get to find out how his body reacts to illness via vaccine, because he's not been sick since his diagnosis. It's going to be nuts... but it must be done. Better on a schedule then at random after he goes back to school in August.

 

[britechguy]

I only wish that every vaccine skeptic in the world would have watched the PBS show, Extra Life: A Short History of Living Longer, on the history of vaccination, from variolation through the latest vaccine technologies, and take all that information to heart.

 

[TechLady]

I only wish that every vaccine skeptic in the world would have watched the PBS show, Extra Life: A Short History of Living Longer, on the history of vaccination, from variolation through the latest vaccine technologies, and take all that information to heart.

Or have a closer look at people in iron lungs.

"Before the arrival of a vaccine in 1955, what made polio so terrifying was that there was no way of predicting who would walk away from an infection with a headache, and who would never walk again."

“It’s exactly the way it was, it’s almost freaky to me,” Paul said of the parallels between polio and Covid-19. “It scares me.”

David Oshinsky, the author of Polio: An American Story, believes that the success of vaccines in eradicating so many deadly diseases is precisely why the anti-vaxx movement has gained ground in recent years. “These vaccines have done away with the evidence of how frightening these diseases were,” he told me.

 

[britechguy]

Oh, I absolutely believe that vaccines have been a victim of their own success.

That's why shows like the one I mentioned, and the evidence you have pointed to, are just so essential. Most people will believe their eyes and ears when they see direct evidence of how utterly devastating what were once common illnesses were to humanity. There really is no doubt that the combination of vaccinations around the world, coupled with far better access to food in much of it, have been two of the primary reasons that human life expectancy has more than doubled in a bit under a century (during the 20th century).

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Vaccines are one of the biggest public health successes (and blessings) ever to have been discovered and promulgated.

 

[Sky-Knight]

COVID:
90% mild to no symptoms.
30% of patients reporting a symptom that lasts 2-6 months.
Most commonly reported long term symptoms: fatigue (13.6%), loss of smell or taste (13.6%), brain fog (2.3%). (13.6%) Assorted other complains generally associated with flu like infections... headache, muscle ache, etc.
2% overall death rate.
Most common comorbidity hypertension. (If you have blood pressure issues, don't get COVID!)
6% of patents are asymptomatic.
Spread method: airborne

Polio:
95% of patients are asymptomatic.
4% have minor symptoms (fever, muscle weakness, headache, nausea)
1% of infected persons develop severe muscle pain and stiffness in the neck / back.
<1% result in paralysis.
Spread method: fecal -> oral contact, and possibly mouth to mouth contact.

COVID by any objective measure is far more terrifying than Polio is. You can control Polio by just washing your hands when you're done at the toilet... You know, like someone that isn't utterly disgusting.

To stop COVID we have to denaturate all the air we exhale... and it has proportionately infected far more people. US citizens lined up for days to have the vaccine delivered via jet gun... You know the air compressor gun that the tire guy uses to pull off your tires? yeah... pretty much THAT blasting a hole into your arm. A hole that would scar and leave behind a mark still seen today on many recipients. The original vaccine was a liquid that went into use in 1950, which the US adopting a different one arriving in 1955. So the vaccine that the people of the US lined up for blocks to get, to be delivered via means barbaric by modern standards, was only 5 years old...

Meanwhile, the PFizer vaccine was developed to fight the original SARS epidemic in 2002, it was modified to fight SARS-COV-2 at the start of the current pandemic. So it's been in development for almost TWENTY YEARS. But anti-VAX idiots will claim "it's untested". Others that are only what I can describe as intentionally ignorant at this point, want to "just wait a bit more". Why? This vaccine is old enough to drink in some states!