Obama care?

[PCSupportGlasgow]

As someone looking in on the outside.


what is so evil about the affordable care act (obamacare) that is has resulted in US government not agreeing on a yearly budget to run the country?

 

[codegreen]

Oh, boy. You just had to do it, didn't you?

 

[SAG]

As an American, I still feel that I'm on the outside looking in.

 

[SilverLeaf]

As someone looking in on the outside.


what is so evil about the affordable care act (obamacare) that is has resulted in US government not agreeing on a yearly budget to run the country?

Sh!t like this happens when you have a starkly polarized government where one half supports welfare for big business and the rich (funded by the shrinking middle class), and the other supports welfare for the poor (funded by the wealthy). Throw in a large helping of FUD, misinformation, and unyielding ideologies; and this is what you get.

Just wait a few weeks when the whole "debt ceiling" issue becomes a possibility, and the risk of a US debt default hangs in the balance.....with substantial consequences worldwide.

 

[nlinecomputers]

This has a basic summary: http://lifehacker.com/5922382/how-will-the-new-health-care-law-affect-me

And there are links to far more detailed explanations.

Basically the law requires everyone to be insured and forces any company that has 50 or more employees to provide insurance.

The law stops pre-existing conditions or the right for insurance companies to drop you should you have serious medical issues.

It is good in the fact that many that can't get insured now can. It is bad in the fact that insurance companies dropped people for a reason because of the enormous expense. Lets face it some medical conditions can raise up thousands of dollars in medical bills.

Medical care is already very expensive and this will drive up costs. And frankly more government mandated insurance takes even more market forces out of the play and that always drives up costs.

 

[coffee]

what is so evil about the affordable care act (obamacare) that is has resulted in US government not agreeing on a yearly budget to run the country?

Companies do not want to pay for health care. In the past the companies that hired full time workers paid about 2/3 the premium of healthcare. The worker saw a deduction from their paycheck for the other 1/3 of the premium.

The obamacare act makes it mandatory to have healthcare. This is a burden that the private insurance companies do not want as it forces them to take on people with very high health risks. Therefore the premiums for HC skyrocketed. Thus, Companies have scaled back hiring and alot of the jobs are tailored to come below the requirements to provide healthcare. Less working hours, Not hiring.

Also, There are alot of "add ons" to the Healthcare bill that have nothing to do with it. Add to that alot of the Unions, Companies and Government people (Senators, Representives, ect) have been given a waver on Obamacare.

It kills business here in America. It mandates a fine if you do not have healthcare. Besides all that, The government makes a very poor business model. Any business venture from the government tends to be doomed from the beginning. Examples are Amtrak, General Motors, Social Security and Medicare, and many more.

We are basically following a blue print setup by Europe and there are great examples as to why it doesnt work.

For a better explanation that I cannot give please go to youtube and lookup "Milton Friedman" on such subjects of:

Socialized Medicine
Whats wrong with welfare
Why soaking the rich will not work
Socialism Vs. Capitalism

They are very good educational videos on Economics and how things work.

coffee

 

[SilverLeaf]

Companies do not want to pay for health care. In the past the companies that hired full time workers paid about 2/3 the premium of healthcare. The worker saw a deduction from their paycheck for the other 1/3 of the premium.

The obamacare act makes it mandatory to have healthcare. This is a burden that the private insurance companies do not want as it forces them to take on people with very high health risks. Therefore the premiums for HC skyrocketed. Thus, Companies have scaled back hiring and alot of the jobs are tailored to come below the requirements to provide healthcare. Less working hours, Not hiring.

Also, There are alot of "add ons" to the Healthcare bill that have nothing to do with it. Add to that alot of the Unions, Companies and Government people (Senators, Representives, ect) have been given a waver on Obamacare.

It kills business here in America. It mandates a fine if you do not have healthcare. Besides all that, The government makes a very poor business model. Any business venture from the government tends to be doomed from the beginning. Examples are Amtrak, General Motors, Social Security and Medicare, and many more.

We are basically following a blue print setup by Europe and there are great examples as to why it doesnt work.

For a better explanation that I cannot give please go to youtube and lookup "Milton Friedman" on such subjects of:

Socialized Medicine
Whats wrong with welfare
Why soaking the rich will not work
Socialism Vs. Capitalism

They are very good educational videos on Economics and how things work.

coffee

Actually, the ACA is more "free market" in some ways than what we had prior. The state healthcare exchanges provide a common marketplace for insurance companies to compete for enrollees and allow consumers to shop and compare plans. This did not exist before. As a result of this forced competition, plan prices have come in significantly lower than originally anticipated, as the insurance companies now have an incentive to offer reasonable plans. They now have to compete, and this is good for the consumer.

If health care was strictly "laissez-faire", then you would have medical decisions and treatment plans based solely on financial criteria. Often, people will point to select disfunctional government health programs around the world and say "see socialized medicine does not work". But there are plenty of examples where it does deliver far better results than what we have now, at a much lower cost.

I found this chart to be rather telling: http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-health-care-countries

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

It's gonna hit us hard. We have a meeting this Friday about it. Our little company is a company of 5x people. The company pays for 75% of the employees insurance...health/dental. 25% out of the employees pocket.

They summed up a lot of it before. Insurance could be picky...if they wanted to keep their rates down, they could deny coverage to those with pre-existing conditions. So those with pre-existing conditions had to get special packages that covered those..and those packages had wicked high premiums (costs).

Now...an insurance company will have to cover everyone. How do they cover unhealthy people..and still remain profitable? They have to jack up their premiums WAAAAAAAAAAAY up. And spread that cost across everyone. Who suffers? The healthy that previously would have had lower premiums.

 

[Blues]

Insurance is a scam and I don't like being forced into participating in a scam.

 

[coffee]

Actually, the ACA is more "free market" in some ways than what we had prior. The state healthcare exchanges provide a common marketplace for insurance companies to compete for enrollees and allow consumers to shop and compare plans. This did not exist before. As a result of this forced competition, plan prices have come in significantly lower than originally anticipated, as the insurance companies now have an incentive to offer reasonable plans. They now have to compete, and this is good for the consumer.

If health care was strictly "laissez-faire", then you would have medical decisions and treatment plans based solely on financial criteria. Often, people will point to select disfunctional government health programs around the world and say "see socialized medicine does not work". But there are plenty of examples where it does deliver far better results than what we have now, at a much lower cost.

I found this chart to be rather telling: http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-health-care-countries

Hong Kong is at the top of the list. A quick search shows this about their healthcare:

Hong Kong and China are second only to the United States for having the highest medical costs in the World. For expatriates that live and work here, or are planning to settle down, private health insurance is strongly recommended.

See: http://www.allianzworldwidecare.com/healthcare-in-hong-kong

The problem in the United States is not Private HealthCare. Its how it is managed. Because it is not a free economy market - The restrictions on how it operates - The costs are quite high. What we find is that the restrictions placed upon private health care in the United States adds tremendously to the cost of such healthcare.

There isnt a simple answer to this. However, If you really want the government to handle your health care then look at their resume. The Veterans Hospital is ran by the government and the care is appalling. A simple google search shows the many problems caused by the government. Other factors that inhibit good health care in the United States are:

1. Private insurance companies are not allowed to operate across state lines.

2. Fraud in billing practices are rampant as the "checks and balances" system is poor.

3. The influx of illegal aliens has clogged the emergency rooms and they depend on free health care as they have no insurance and are not even US citizens. This puts the burdon of paying for their healthcare squarely on the taxpayer.

4. (In line with #3 above) Since Illegal Aliens do not pay taxes they contribute nothing to the country to offset the rising costs of providing healthcare.

------------

What you will find when all is said and done is that healthcare will be extremely expensive because it is government run. The private companies will narrow down to a few (same situation in broadband providers in the US) and large companies will no longer provide a healthcare insurance option. They will let the government handle this thru the exchanges. The government can run the healthcare with a loss as they will just raise taxes. Private companies must make a profit or go out of business.

Government healthcare is the worst possible solution to problem. Thru the free economy is the only possible way to provide what we need. Costs of health care can be lowered by getting the government involvement out of the market and providing a real "check and balances" system that actually penalizes those that violate the Healthcare practices.

coffee

 

[mr m]

That chart link that Silverleaf posted says it all. We're number 46 out of 48. Something had to be done because America's health care insurance system is an expensive, out of control joke.

My wife and I are two of the 48 million Americans without health insurance. Our combined ages are over 120 years old. Needless to say we have medical issues we can't afford to address.

Today is the first day to sign up for the ACA and the web page is swamped with queries. I can't get through because of the millions who get up earlier than I do but I'll apply tonight when the stars are shining bright.

 

[SilverLeaf]

Hong Kong is at the top of the list. A quick search shows this about their healthcare:



See: http://www.allianzworldwidecare.com/healthcare-in-hong-kong

The problem in the United States is not Private HealthCare. Its how it is managed. Because it is not a free economy market - The restrictions on how it operates - The costs are quite high. What we find is that the restrictions placed upon private health care in the United States adds tremendously to the cost of such healthcare.

There isnt a simple answer to this. However, If you really want the government to handle your health care then look at their resume. The Veterans Hospital is ran by the government and the care is appalling. A simple google search shows the many problems caused by the government. Other factors that inhibit good health care in the United States are:

1. Private insurance companies are not allowed to operate across state lines.

2. Fraud in billing practices are rampant as the "checks and balances" system is poor.

3. The influx of illegal aliens has clogged the emergency rooms and they depend on free health care as they have no insurance and are not even US citizens. This puts the burdon of paying for their healthcare squarely on the taxpayer.

4. (In line with #3 above) Since Illegal Aliens do not pay taxes they contribute nothing to the country to offset the rising costs of providing healthcare.

------------

What you will find when all is said and done is that healthcare will be extremely expensive because it is government run. The private companies will narrow down to a few (same situation in broadband providers in the US) and large companies will no longer provide a healthcare insurance option. They will let the government handle this thru the exchanges. The government can run the healthcare with a loss as they will just raise taxes. Private companies must make a profit or go out of business.

Government healthcare is the worst possible solution to problem. Thru the free economy is the only possible way to provide what we need. Costs of health care can be lowered by getting the government involvement out of the market and providing a real "check and balances" system that actually penalizes those that violate the Healthcare practices.

coffee

But, it is NOT government run healthcare. The insurance companies, hospitals, and medical providers are not government employees, nor are they managed by the government. The government will not be making decisions about my treatment.

Contrary to what it may seem, I believe in the benefits of free market competition....in most cases. But, healthcare is different. You can't let the market decide who gets medical care; who lives and dies. Just like you can't rely on market forces to develop cures for chronic diseases. There is no profit in a cure; but there is a fortune to made in treatments. Just ask the pharmaceutical industry.

You make a valid point with #1, and while the ACA doesn't solve this entirely, it does indeed provide a better framework for open competition the what we've had previously. I also think tort reform is necessary as well.

 

[SilverLeaf]

That chart link that Silverleaf posted says it all. We're number 46 out of 48. Something had to be done because America's health care insurance system is an expensive, out of control joke.

My wife and I are two of the 48 million Americans without health insurance. Our combined ages are over 120 years old. Needless to say we have medical issues we can't afford to address.

Today is the first day to sign up for the ACA and the web page is swamped with queries. I can't get through because of the millions who get up earlier than I do but I'll apply tonight when the stars are shining bright.

I'm having the same problem here with my state exchange. The website has been brought to its knees this morning.

 

[Montrose Computers]

Cliffs notes for people overseas:

Obamacare if definitely hurting the USA's economy with many companies cutting their full time workers to part time. Plus for the first time in this country's history its citizens are being forced to buy a very expensive service (health insurance) that they may not want or can't afford just for being alive. It was a real blow to personal liberty. Polls showed at the time that by a 2 to 1 majority that the citizens didn't want Obamacare, but the political party that created it gave the people their middle finger and passed it anyway. Now with the polls showing Obamacare being even less popular, the opposition party is trying to get a delay for one year before people are forced to buy insurance. I hope they are sucessfull. I get insurance through my wife's job, but my parents and brother can't afford insurance, much less the $2,000 fine every year for not having it.

 

[SilverLeaf]

Cliffs notes for people overseas:

Obamacare if definitely hurting the USA's economy with many companies cutting their full time workers to part time. Plus for the first time in this country's history its citizens are being forced to buy a very expensive service (health insurance) that they may not want or can't afford just for being alive. It was a real blow to personal liberty. Polls showed at the time that by a 2 to 1 majority that the citizens didn't want Obamacare, but the political party that created it gave the people their middle finger and passed it anyway. Now with the polls showing Obamacare being even less popular, the opposition party is trying to get a delay for one year before people are forced to buy insurance. I hope they are sucessfull. I get insurance through my wife's job, but my parents and brother can't afford insurance, much less the $2,000 fine every year for not having it.

You should spend some more time looking into this. For people of meager means, substantial discounts/subsidies are available and may even be no cost if certain income criteria is met. Medicaid has been expanded as part of the ACA. As it stands now, who pays for treatment if someone doesn't have insurance? How much emergency room traffic and expense could be reduced if people had preventative care?

Also, the tax penalty for not having coverage is income based as well.http://kff.org/infographic/the-requirement-to-buy-coverage-under-the-affordable-care-act/

 

[mr m]

Polls showed at the time that by a 2 to 1 majority that the citizens didn't want Obamacare,

Check this out: http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...rt-repealing-defunding-or-delaying-obamacare/

 

[Montrose Computers]

Check this out: http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...rt-repealing-defunding-or-delaying-obamacare/

How about this one: Poll: Obamacare remains highly unpopular as implementation looms http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/...highly-unpopular-as-implementation-looms?lite

 

[TimJacobs]

Here is a Video that explains it.....

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10200156831823611

 

[Knightsman]

This is like replacing a server all workstations, because some employees take advantage of the computers and watch porn videos and hoggle up the bandwidth.

So instead of making the employees stop taking advantage, they replace all the systems in hopes it fixes it.

Just like healthcare, its so damned expensive because of a few who sue the doctors for frivolous lawsuits, the hospitals charge the ins companies 3 times as much as if you were to pay just cash.
Companies would rather make money off a treatment instead of actually researching cures.

They are fixing the wrong things.

If you think the above is not true, its time to wake up.

 

[14049752]

Just like healthcare, its so damned expensive because of a few who sue the doctors for frivolous lawsuits, the hospitals charge the ins companies 3 times as much as if you were to pay just cash.
Companies would rather make money off a treatment instead of actually researching cures.

It's not that simple. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M

ACA is just a first step to fixing the problem. There are a lot of problems that will need to be fixed later because of various political stupidities... combined with the fact that the system is to difficult to fix all at once