Obama care?

[scoop818]

I won't claim to know all the end and outs of the aca, I do know this. I live in New Jersey my wife and I are both self-employed, currently we pay north of $1300.00 a month for health care for our family, looking on the exchange it appears we will be able to save roughly $500.00 per month, for the exact same plan with the same company we are currently insured with now. That's a $6000.00 a year savings for us, to me that's awesome.

My understanding for the mandate is to get the younger healthy folks who normally wouldn't buy insurance to be on the rolls which balances out those with pre-existing conditions. I personally know people who have gone bankrupt due to medical bills, they didn't have insurance because they could not afford the premiums, and these hard working middle-class folks.

 

[numnutz]

I'm confused when people say this is supposed to be a free country and I shouldn't be forced to by Heath insurance and this is the first step in becoming a not free country. Aren't we forced to buy car insurance regardless if the car sits in the drive way or not. Home owners insurance, flood insurance if we live in a flood zone even if it never floods. PMI insurance if we don't put 20% down on a mortgage? Forced to pay taxes, forced to pay social security tax even if we don't live old enough to use it? School taxes even if we don't have children in the school system? Maybe I'm looking at it wrong? I don't no just hope people start working together for the greater good and it all works out.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I'm confused when people say this is supposed to be a free country and I shouldn't be forced to by Heath insurance and this is the first step in becoming a not free country. Aren't we forced to buy car insurance regardless if the car sits in the drive way or not. Home owners insurance, flood insurance if we live in a flood zone even if it never floods. PMI insurance if we don't put 20% down on a mortgage? Forced to pay taxes, forced to pay social security tax even if we don't live old enough to use it? School taxes even if we don't have children in the school system? Maybe I'm looking at it wrong? I don't no just hope people start working together for the greater good and it all works out.

I shouldn't be forced to buy car insurance ether. Texas forces everyone to get insurance and all it does is breed a class of low life insurance agents that cater to the groups that buy insurance long enough to get a license or car insspection sticker and then drop it after the fact. Stats say that 1/3 of Texas drivers don't have proper insurance. Which forces us that ARE insured to secure uninsured motorist insurance. Which is what everyone would have if the government butted out. All it does is subsidize a industry that feeds on the poorest of the poor with yet another tax. Taking money from poor people and giving it to sleazeball insurance agents. It's immoral and should be stopped.

Schools are just as bad. I don't have kids. I should not have to pay school taxes. You want your kids to go to school? Pay for it. As it is the schools are filled with children that don't want to be there being forced through a cookie cutter system who's only outcome is college. Breeding mindless drones too dull and stupid to notice what the government or the megacorporations are doing to them.

We are already not a free country taking away even more of our rights isn't acceptable just because we've already lost some.

If a third of our citizens can't get medical care then change medicare so that more qualify. I'd much rather have free health care then B2 bombers. But killing so called terrorists is more important then the true safety of our Citizens. Obamacare is designed not to help needy Americans but to milk the middle class.

 

[numnutz]

I'm just saying there just "seems" to be such an out cry about this, as this is the first step to being a not free country when things like previously mentioned have been going on for decades and they are more or less not spoken about. Maybe they make good dinner table discussions and every one gets grumpy at tax time but no out cry like Obama care.

I do totally agree if the defense budget was not equal to the next 7 top counties defense budgets combined. That money could be used elsewhere. Maybe just equal to the next 3 top countries defense budgets? Probably could fix most of our education needs, health care and social security.

 

[Gary Rockliff]

Wake up Republicans, you are destroying a great country.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I'm just saying there just "seems" to be such an out cry about this, as this is the first step to being a not free country when things like previously mentioned have been going on for decades and they are more or less not spoken about. Maybe they make good dinner table discussions and every one gets grumpy at tax time but no out cry like Obama care.

I do totally agree if the defense budget was not equal to the next 7 top counties defense budgets combined. That money could be used elsewhere. Maybe just equal to the next 3 top countries defense budgets? Probably could fix most of our education needs, health care and social security.

Well when you are healthy and don't really need insurance being saddled with a bill that is around $5000 a head is a major sacrifice. When jobs are being cut in a bad economy in order to accommodate this that makes it a big thing. When it goes for decades you give up. You are used to it. This is new. You really have to be naive if you don't expect people to react when such major financial changes are a foot.

 

[Gary Rockliff]

Obama's health scheme should be heralded as one of the best things to come out of Capitol Hill.

I hope these rich republicans go and by a sandwich from one of the small businesses in the Washington area and see what response they get from the owners.

Sorry I forgot republicans only eat caviar and lobster, silly me.

 

[TechLady]

Obama's health scheme should be heralded as one of the best things to come out of Capitol Hill.

I hope these rich republicans go and by a sandwich from one of the small businesses in the Washington area and see what response they get from the owners.

Sorry I forgot republicans only eat caviar and lobster, silly me.

Ha! Agreed...

Any of you like John Hodgeman? He brought up some very good points.

"[Some] complained that the ACA was going to TRIPLE premiums for young people, especially for young men, whom you know are the true victim of all liberal machinations. @eugenemirman sent in an article that really enlightened me on both a) how certain premiums will indeed go up; and yet b) how the new plans offered by the exchanges increase service and reduce out-of-pocket costs such that, to me, it seemed like a wash. Reasonable minds may differ. If you’re of the mind that you’re never going to get sick, I would imagine having to pay ANYTHING into a risk pool is going to irk you. Anyway, here is the article:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/27/news/economy/obamacare-young-premiums/

"People who refuse to participate in the ACA because THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS BROKEN and the ACA is at best a terrible half solution have some interesting ideas. But ultimately your principles aren't going protect you from that heart attack. "

And my favorite part: "FINALLY, REMEMBER, YOUNG PEOPLE: just because you don’t want to pay for health insurance now doesn't mean you’ll be able to bit-torrent it for free when you need it later."

 

[Gary Rockliff]

Don't worry the same thing will happen in Australia.

I am 49 years of age and we have a system called Medicare here in Australia, which gives everyone access to health care. A levy is place on the wage earner that goes into funding the public health system.This levy was recently increased to fund the National Disability program, a much needed program.

What I find here in Australia at the moment is that while we have the GST "goods and services tax" the government is not getting enough revenue from the GST to cover the cost of providing services to the public and we need to increase income tax, but as soon as mention the word increase income tax, young people especially go into a frenzy. What they don't realize is what public services we have left in Australian that have not be privatized were paid for my me and my forefathers by the way of income tax.Unfortunately young people of working age say 18 to 30 don't realize this and be will wondering when they hit the age of 65 or get sick where have all the services gone.

 

[Pants]

What makes me nervous is that I don't understand the Affordable Health Care act very much. I hear a lot and I can't tell if it's just republicans hyping stuff up or if they are telling the truth. I've grown to distrust both sides of the isle over the years. Dems point their fingers at republicans and republicans point their fingers at dems constantly. Both sides are potentially equally corrupt. The government doesn't seem to work very well.

Looking at it objectively certainly doesn't hurt. What if someone in my family becomes chronically ill? Are they going to die because they have to wait too long to see a doctor? Are there going to be death panels?

 

[Gary Rockliff]

What makes me nervous is that I don't understand the Affordable Health Care act very much. I hear a lot and I can't tell if it's just republicans hyping stuff up or if they are telling the truth. I've grown to distrust both sides of the isle over the years. Dems point their fingers at republicans and republicans point their fingers at dems constantly. Both sides are potentially equally corrupt. The government doesn't seem to work very well.

Looking at it objectively certainly doesn't hurt. What if someone in my family becomes chronically ill? Are they going to die because they have to wait too long to see a doctor? Are there going to be death panels?

Isn't that what's happening now? If you don't have private health cover and you get a cold you pretty much buggered. You need to get more younger people into private health care or subject them to a levy.

In Australia you get critically ill you get looked after in the public system very well and medicare (taxpayer levy) will pay for but for minor surgery (elective surgery) you go on a waiting list which can vary from 3,6 to 12 months but your still covered.

 

[ohio_grad_06]

Really? I'm republican, former democrat, and am FAR from rich. A lot of people have genuine concerns. I'm glad the republicans are standing up for the little guys. I hope they do not compromise.

I have insurance but it appears to cover my wife and myself under ACA would send our prices up. I dont see why younger people should pay higher costs . There has to be a better way than aca. Why not simply create a sales tax for the entire country and streamline the system to cut costs, then make healthcare free. If someone has special conditions then have an option to where they can pay extra for that or work something else out.

 

[Pants]

Geez man, I just don't know I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW. The only thing I can conclude is that the dynamics of ACA are going to, possibly immeasurably, change the infrastructure of American living. That much is certain. All I can do is put my trust in the Lord, make the best of it and hang on for the ride!

 

[ohio_grad_06]

I concur. God is the real hope we have. I at this point have 162, 000 miles on my 2000 Ford Taurus. It still runs good though, just had to have a head gasket done for $1600 bucks. I'm considering just fixing it and maybe getting a budget paint job done on it vs buying a newer car. I think financial wise, I almost believe now in just buying a cheapish used car that looks nice still, and just keep fixing issues that pop up, and carrying AAA. That way you've got towing etc if something happens.

But basically just living with as few debts as I can, that way if things happen you have more flexibility. My car is paid off. Now to just get the wife's car paid off.

 

[numnutz]

Really? I'm republican, former democrat, and am FAR from rich. A lot of people have genuine concerns. I'm glad the republicans are standing up for the little guys. I hope they do not compromise.

Standing up for the little guy? I thought the 20 million people who are not lucky enough to have a job that gives them health benifits and can't afford insurance on there own are the little guys? Why do doctors charge $200 for a basic office visit, accept a $15 dollar co pay from you and have your insurance plan say $150 dollars is above and beyond reasonable and only pay out another $35.00 to the doctor and the doctor is ok with that?

Because the doctor knows there are millions of other potential customers with out insurance who have to pay in full for them to collect from. With out them they would be demanding much bigger compensation from you and the insurance company. So in away the un-insured person has been paying for your supposedly reasonable health plan for decades.

In politics in this country one side has to yell doom and gloom anytime the other side comes up with an idea, any idea. That's how they think they will get re-elected. That idea will kill the country don't vote for him I will stick up for you and do this instead of that.

Will prices for insurance go up a lot or a little. Will prices for goods and services go up a lot or a little? Honestly I do not have a crystal ball to know for sure. How many times are these no it alls forecasters are wrong. The price of oil goes way up cause someone in the Middle East burps everyone yells doom and gloom, there is going to be a shortage, prices rise and there never is a shortage.

If prices go up but little Johnny can finally get to a doctor, or someone with a pre existing illness will be covered again or after someone's kid who just got out of college doesn't have to worry about coverage for a little longer. I think for all the reasons prices have gone up over the decades this one is more reasonable and for a better cause than most. Is it perfect, no I'm sure it's not. Should it be tweaked I'm sure it can and will be but stop all the doom and gloom. I just hope I live long enough to see one day when a republican comes up with an idea and the democrats say, hey that's not bad, i wish I thought of that. And visa versa instead of each side being wrong and its going to destroy our way of life. It's getting old. Well back to work guys I'm going back to what I do best. Fixing computers and getting out of politics lol.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Obama's health scheme should be heralded as one of the best things to come out of Capitol Hill.

I hope these rich republicans go and by a sandwich from one of the small businesses in the Washington area and see what response they get from the owners.

Sorry I forgot republicans only eat caviar and lobster, silly me.

You sir are navie. I'll say again what I told silverleaf. Do you honestly expect that the CURRENT plan gets any money from the wealthy? You need to actually read the plan and see where the bulk of the costs of it hits. It's not the wealthy. It is the shrinking middle class. Again most people in the United States are either employed by government or by small business. Companies with less then 50 employees are EXEMPT from providing insurance to their employees. Large companies can get group rates that are cheaper then what an individual can get. Just because the entire country is being required to get insurance doesn't mean the entire country is one big group rate insurance program. People are being told they MUST spend $5000-$10,000 per year on insurance. Average income in the US is about $48,000. So many are going to spend nearly 1/4 of their take home income on insurance.

AND THAT IS STICKING IT TO THE MAN? Really? Most democrats are idiots so wrapped up in class envy that you don't even realize the plan you endorse is making life much harder for you.

I'm not sure that true universal health care is a solution but ACA is NOT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!!!! That is the problem with it.

 

[SilverLeaf]

You sir are navie. I'll say again what I told silverleaf. Do you honestly expect that the CURRENT plan gets any money from the wealthy? You need to actually read the plan and see where the bulk of the costs of it hits. It's not the wealthy. It is the shrinking middle class. Again most people in the United States are either employed by government or by small business. Companies with less then 50 employees are EXEMPT from providing insurance to their employees. Large companies can get group rates that are cheaper then what an individual can get. Just because the entire country is being required to get insurance doesn't mean the entire country is one big group rate insurance program. People are being told they MUST spend $5000-$10,000 per year on insurance. Average income in the US is about $48,000. So many are going to spend nearly 1/4 of their take home income on insurance.

AND THAT IS STICKING IT TO THE MAN? Really? Most democrats are idiots so wrapped up in class envy that you don't even realize the plan you endorse is making life much harder for you.

I'm not sure that true universal health care is a solution but ACA is NOT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!!!! That is the problem with it.

Let's try to avoid a descent into name calling and accusations.

If you looked into this a little deeper, you would find that the figures you used are not accurate. Go to your state (or federal if your state didn't participate) exchange, enter you info, and browse the plans that are available. I did, and I can tell you that as a self-employed, business owner with few other options for coverage; this is a good thing. You also need to consider the income adjustments to what you actually pay for coverage and the expanded medicaid coverage provisions....at least in states that didn't refuse to do this. Also, as I said before, you aren't being forced. If you don't want insurance, pay the tax penalty (also income adjusted), and move on. Just don't expect the rest of us to pay higher premiums because hospitals have to eat the charges when people without insurance need emergency care.

Although the ACA is not about "the rich providing medical care for the poor", they do contribute. They are not entitled to subsidies that the poor and middle class may get, and generally they will choose the high end plans that are more profitable for the providers, and they are generally healthier (less costly). Prior to the ACA, insurance companies routinely denied coverage to anyone that they felt might cost them money....and have even been known to drop coverage when people get sick. Why? Because as a publicly traded company, they are beholden to their shareholders (read investment banks, institutional investors,) to produce a return. They are now also forced to compete in on open and transparent market. In essence, the ACA requirements help to provide coverage to those who would previously not been accepted at the potential expense of reduced profits for major shareholders (not usually poor people).

 

[nlinecomputers]

Let's try to avoid a descent into name calling and accusations.

If you looked into this a little deeper, you would find that the figures you used are not accurate. Go to your state (or federal if your state didn't participate) exchange, enter you info, and browse the plans that are available. I did, and I can tell you that as a self-employed, business owner with few other options for coverage; this is a good thing. You also need to consider the income adjustments to what you actually pay for coverage and the expanded medicaid coverage provisions....at least in states that didn't refuse to do this. Also, as I said before, you aren't being forced. If you don't want insurance, pay the tax penalty (also income adjusted), and move on. Just don't expect the rest of us to pay higher premiums because hospitals have to eat the charges when people without insurance need emergency care.

Although the ACA is not about "the rich providing medical care for the poor", they do contribute. They are not entitled to subsidies that the poor and middle class may get, and generally they will choose the high end plans that are more profitable for the providers, and they are generally healthier (less costly). Prior to the ACA, insurance companies routinely denied coverage to anyone that they felt might cost them money....and have even been known to drop coverage when people get sick. Why? Because as a publicly traded company, they are beholden to their shareholders (read investment banks, institutional investors,) to produce a return. They are now also forced to compete in on open and transparent market. In essence, the ACA requirements help to provide coverage to those who would previously not been accepted at the potential expense of reduced profits for major shareholders (not usually poor people).

With all due respect. Where do you think I got my figures from? I get coverage from my wife's plan where she works but as an exercise I went to the Texas exchange and shopped for insurance for us both. Cheapest rate I can get is $240 month. But it has a $10,000 deductible and only 3 office visits allowed with co pay. To get decent real coverage that I would want the cost is much higher around $600 per month. That is only for 2 people. A family of 4 basically doubles those rates and a history of tobacco use also doubles your rates. So I stand by my figures.

 

[SilverLeaf]

With all due respect. Where do you think I got my figures from? I get coverage from my wife's plan where she works but as an exercise I went to the Texas exchange and shopped for insurance for us both. Cheapest rate I can get is $240 month. But it has a $10,000 deductible and only 3 office visits allowed with co pay. To get decent real coverage that I would want the cost is much higher around $600 per month. That is only for 2 people. A family of 4 basically doubles those rates and a history of tobacco use also doubles your rates. So I stand by my figures.

Fair enough.

Texas? If I recall correctly, this is a state that refused to set up their own exchange, and opted to have the federal government run it for them. And Gov. Perry refused to accept the federal funds to expand Medicaid and allow for people below 138% of the federal poverty line....meaning a family of four earning less than $32k to qualify. The governor also made an extraordinary effort to block "navigators" from educating the public about the ACA and helping people enroll.

My state OTOH (Kentucky, the state that gave us both Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell, and is strongly anti-Obama btw), was proactive in setting up their own exchanges and expanding Medicaid. As a result," 588,778 (95%) of Kentucky’s uninsured and eligible population may qualify for lower costs on coverage in the Marketplace, including through Medicaid."

 

[nlinecomputers]

Hey you'll get no argument from me about Governor Goodhair. That's politics in the land of Red. I'm a libertarian which we could clone Dr. Paul(Rand's daddy and just as much a Libertarian) and fill our statehouse with him.