Obama care?

[phaZed]

People are being told they MUST spend $5000-$10,000 per year on insurance. Average income in the US is about $48,000. So many are going to spend nearly 1/4 of their take home income on insurance.

Sorry, no they are not being told they MUST spend $5-$10K, and even if they were they would be paying the same or less than current conventional insurance anyway.

In 2013, the average US family health insurance premiums were $16K per year with workers paying an AVERAGE of $4,565 NOT including deductibles or copays. Now just because a company is paying their share doesn't mean that the worker isn't being hurt by the high employer costs, they are.


You could decide to not "Opt-In" to any insurance:
Healthcare.gov

The fee in 2014 is 1% of your yearly income or $95 per person for the year, whichever is higher. The fee increases every year. In 2016 it is 2.5% of income or $695 per person, whichever is higher.

In 2014 the fee for uninsured children is $47.50 per child. The most a family would have to pay in 2014 is $285.

It's important to remember that someone who pays the fee won't get any health insurance coverage. They still will be responsible for 100% of the cost of their medical care.

Then of course, if you really don't like the ACA and the insurance marketplace, nobody is forcing anyone to join. You can keep your existing private insurance plans or sign up for a new private plan.. so it's still the same as it ever was in that respect.

I for one have not had health insurance for my family, only my 6 year old son (~$400/mo - $4800/yr). The reason? $1300 per month is the reason! That's right, for my family (2 adults, one kid) it would cost $15,600 per year for only what I would consider "minor" coverage and $2000 deductibles. Me by myself costs ~$800/month as a healthy individual that never goes to the doctor. For the next plan up we're looking at $1800-$2100 a month with $1000 deductibles. Why so high? My wife has a "pre-existing condition". Turns out that "cancer" isn't always "CANCER". Due to some hormone imbalances during pregnancy my wife visited the doctor and had a check up and found that there were some non-threatening growths on her cervix. This is quite common and is not a long-term or malignant thing in MOST cases (as is our case). But, because the doctor noted "cancerous growths" our insurance is sky-high. None of these growths have returned during the last 6 years, presumably because her hormones are back to normal, but that doesn't stop the private insurance industry from raping us.

Taking into account all states and their marketplaces, the average cost ACA across the US is projected to be $328/mo. My insurance is now going to cost somewhere to the tune of $6,262/yr (I do not qualify for subsidies either) for my family.
So, for me, the proof is in the pudding. For the first time in over 6 years my entire family will be covered.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I'm glad you can afford $6000 a year for health insurance. Most people I know can't. They have too much consumer and student loan debt. I also wonder what your deductible is going to be even at that rate. $7000-$8000?

And yes you can opt out and after this goes on for a while I suspect you will see many that take that route. Which will take even more people out of the group pools and drive up insurance costs. I hope your rates stay affordable for you but I suspect that they will not over the next 5 years or so.

 

[Metanis]

No rational discussion is possible

I spent 6 weeks in ICU in 1999 with both a severe heart attack and a head bleed. I've spent a considerable amount of time and money since then with follow-up treatment. The kicker is that I worked for a regional insurance company at the time of my incident so I was able to have visibility into both sides of the equation.

Conclusions? Healthcare is one of those subjects that defy rational discussion because it's so personal to each of us. However I do feel qualified to throw out an observation.

First and foremost is the common notion by even intelligent people that healthcare should somehow be free or very low cost. Why? It's a service you buy just like an oil change for your car. Well you sputter that health care can be a matter of life or death. So? Can you dictate that a doctor or nurse give up their income just to keep you alive? Why should your neighbor pay for your Viagra or chiropractor treatment?

This notion that healthcare should be free is the poison that destroys any reasonable legislation or reform. During many of the last few years my health expenses have routinely topped $10k per year. Why not? I was consuming expensive medical treatment and I was the sole beneficiary. Why shouldn't I pay at least a portion of it?

You'll see youngsters walking around with all the latest expensive gadgets but become positively indignant that they might be expected to pay $250 for a routine physical exam. It's a destructive state of mind.

A true reform of the US healthcare system would be to move deductibility for health care insurance away from employers and apply it directly to individuals. Employers providing healthcare insurance and getting a tax deduction for it have warped our system to the breaking point. That coupling needs to be broken and individuals should get the tax deduction. Then they'd understand the true cost of insurance and they'd be freed from the chains of insurance slavery to an employer.

One other major reform would need to be made. Since many healthcare providers like big hospitals are monopolies in their particular region they should be required to publicly post their prices and not be allowed to offer discounts to favored groups. Nothing infuriates me more than seeing my local hospital deduct 80% from a Medicare bill while they'll charge full price to the poor sucker without any form of insurance. One price, everyone pays the same, everyone knows up-front what it is. As it stands now you HAVE to have insurance just to get more preferred pricing and that should be illegal.

My 2 pennies!

-Mike Tanis

 

[SilverLeaf]

I spent 6 weeks in ICU in 1999 with both a severe heart attack and a head bleed. I've spent a considerable amount of time and money since then with follow-up treatment. The kicker is that I worked for a regional insurance company at the time of my incident so I was able to have visibility into both sides of the equation.

Conclusions? Healthcare is one of those subjects that defy rational discussion because it's so personal to each of us. However I do feel qualified to throw out an observation.

First and foremost is the common notion by even intelligent people that healthcare should somehow be free or very low cost. Why? It's a service you buy just like an oil change for your car. Well you sputter that health care can be a matter of life or death. So? Can you dictate that a doctor or nurse give up their income just to keep you alive? Why should your neighbor pay for your Viagra or chiropractor treatment?

This notion that healthcare should be free is the poison that destroys any reasonable legislation or reform. During many of the last few years my health expenses have routinely topped $10k per year. Why not? I was consuming expensive medical treatment and I was the sole beneficiary. Why shouldn't I pay at least a portion of it?

You'll see youngsters walking around with all the latest expensive gadgets but become positively indignant that they might be expected to pay $250 for a routine physical exam. It's a destructive state of mind.

A true reform of the US healthcare system would be to move deductibility for health care insurance away from employers and apply it directly to individuals. Employers providing healthcare insurance and getting a tax deduction for it have warped our system to the breaking point. That coupling needs to be broken and individuals should get the tax deduction. Then they'd understand the true cost of insurance and they'd be freed from the chains of insurance slavery to an employer.

One other major reform would need to be made. Since many healthcare providers like big hospitals are monopolies in their particular region they should be required to publicly post their prices and not be allowed to offer discounts to favored groups. Nothing infuriates me more than seeing my local hospital deduct 80% from a Medicare bill while they'll charge full price to the poor sucker without any form of insurance. One price, everyone pays the same, everyone knows up-front what it is. As it stands now you HAVE to have insurance just to get more preferred pricing and that should be illegal.

My 2 pennies!

-Mike Tanis

All good points. The whole system has been fundamentally flawed for some time. The ACA, while not perfect, is an improvement I believe.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

A HUUUUGE amount of misinformation is spouting around here....wow! I'm a republican so I should be slamming the crap out of this stuff...but the most I have to say is...insurance costs will go up a little for some of us.

One thing...you will have options...I forget the names..but basically there's a gold card plan and a silver card plan and a bronze card plan...different levels of coverage, different deductibles..all that stuff.

Check with your businesses insurance reps...by now they've all gone through the training and will spoon feed you guys the correct information.

 

[phaZed]

Or you could just go to healthcare.gov and get all the information straight from the horses mouth.

I see lots of misinformation as well.

 

[tankman1989]

This is all I get on the Healthcare.gov site:

 

[phaZed]

Ya, the site has been swamped since the opening on Oct 1st, or is inadequate for the traffic, or is being DoS'ed - depending on your news source lol.

You can still peruse the site and find answers to many of your questions (Or answers to debunk some common misconceptions in this thread) at:

https://www.healthcare.gov/quick-answers/#step-1


I left a tab open for the signup page and 3 hours later it did allow me access.

 

[SilverLeaf]

It's not just the federal site either. Many of the states that opted to run their own exchanges have been deluged with traffic as well.

Given the scope and complexity of such a rollout, its rather amazing that it hasn't been more problematic. I listened to a news article regarding the tech side of this. All of the different insurance companies and government agencies that need to be queried just to provide a quote for each visitor, let alone process an online app is significant....and requires a good deal of horsepower and bandwidth. I won't even guess as to how complex the software must be to bring all of this together into an efficient UI.

 

[phaZed]

Just an FYI, I logged into the signup page in 10 minutes just now.. so it is getting better.

 

[MikeLierman]

Sadly, paying the fine if you get caught without insurance is still cheaper than paying for insurance premiums.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Sadly, paying the fine if you get caught without insurance is still cheaper than paying for insurance premiums.

And in the long run I suspect that many will take that option. The result being that those who can't afford coverage now will opt to stay that way. Meaning that thousands if not millions will still be non-insured. The paycheck to paycheck lower middle class.

 

[phaZed]

And in the long run I suspect that many will take that option. The result being that those who can't afford coverage now will opt to stay that way. Meaning that thousands if not millions will still be non-insured. The paycheck to paycheck lower middle class.

And so be it, right? They pay the small fee which supports the National health care initiative and provides 0% coverage. Meanwhile, thousands if not millions of Americans which could not have purchased insurance in the past, now can because of the cost benefits. I am assuming that you mean to argue that the ACA is going to somehow be to blame for people not having insurance, like it is now?

 

[nlinecomputers]

And so be it, right? They pay the small fee which supports the National health care initiative and provides 0% coverage. Meanwhile, thousands if not millions of Americans which could not have purchased insurance in the past, now can because of the cost benefits. I am assuming that you mean to argue that the ACA is going to somehow be to blame for people not having insurance, like it is now?

Sorry I don't find it very moral to tax, and the fine IS a tax, people who are hard up and struggling to prop up another group who is also hard up(those who are ill with pre-existing conditions). It's robbing a poor man to help a cripple. It seems that there ought to be a better way to do it. Like cutting some of the massive Federal War Machine and shifting that money to healthcare.

 

[TechLady]

Here's how it works here in the US: http://youtu.be/n8WYAkGZdL8

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

We have one party that really hates people. They hate gays, they hate coloreds, they hate Hispanics, they hate refugees, they hate just about everyone unless you are a born again christian and then they secretly hate them too but they need their votes to say in office since they are otherwise a minority party.

They hate mothers on welfare, working poor people who need medicaid (medical portion of welfare) anyone who has paid a lifetime of social security and then hopes to collect it at 66 1/2 years old for retirement. They hate tax breaks/credits to struggling young families with children. They hate foreign aid to countries that we have impoverished with the new American Imperialism since WWII. There is alot of "if they were not so stupid they wouldn't be poor" excuses both at Americans on the below mean income and other 3rd countries. They send economic hit man to other countries to get them indebted through world bank and then set them up to fail and take the resources of that country in payment for political influences to reduce debt with worldbank. Its a little like borrowing money from the mafia. This might be good for American in the short run but it is no way to keep friends.

Well this group is rather rich and has every manner of way to avoid taxes already but they do not believe they should have to lie, cheat and steal or pay estate lawyers to avoid paying the highest long term capital tax rate of 15% while they are perfectly happy at saying the bottom half of American society 47% pay no taxes at all. Of course you know the saying about statistics and liars. Of course this is BS as anyone with a job pays min 15% fed tax, 6% average state tax, 16.8% social security contribution plus sales tax on purchases, property tax on cars, and homes. Even renters pay imputed in the rent a Real Estate tax of 2% of real estate value per year etc.....

Well this group of people have made through a political medical/industrial policy a system where the medical industry exploits the population to the tune of 17% of gross domestic product (this is second only to Financial/Insurance industry) however we pay higher than any other country in the world while delivering 27th place in real health of our citizens. African midwives have a better % of healthy deliveries than American doctors.

The other side of the political spectrum believe that air we breath, water we drink, and health care should be affordable as a human right. Obama care or Affordable care act attempt to be the first step at making that a reality.

As someone looking in on the outside.


what is so evil about the affordable care act (obamacare) that is has resulted in US government not agreeing on a yearly budget to run the country?

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Companies have scaled back hiring and alot of the jobs are tailored to come below the requirements to provide healthcare. Less working hours, Not hiring.

you seem to be assuming this is due to Obama and not the 2008 Financial crisis that put all of us in the **** hole. If that were so why are so many other countries still strugling as well?

US Businesses are booming due to their low cost of capital investing in Brazil and China but not hiring in USA....has little to do with obama care.

Insurance costs for obama care is nothing more than a raise in the minimum wage by the cost of the insurance.

Also, There are alot of "add ons" to the Healthcare bill that have nothing to do with it. Add to that alot of the Unions, Companies and Government people (Senators, Representives, ect) have been given a waver on Obamacare.

you might not have noticed but the way our system works there are add ons to every bill for the last 20 years. fact of life. not unique to ACA.

The government makes a very poor business model.

you can only believe this if you ignore the low % cost of administration of social security and medicare compared to the very high cost of administration of private medical and insurance.

In other words this is not true.

The only thing ACA and Amtrack have in common is that the government decided that the country needs both. Otherwise apples to oranges.

We are basically following a blue print setup by Europe and there are great examples as to why it doesn't work.

Whenever American politicians want to vilify something they call it and compare it to European failure.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

You get your news from an entertainment channel and you are quoting all the wrong information.

Americans are so easily lead because of their poor understanding of politics, economics and business.

Americas economy is stronger than most other parts of the world yet some have you believe it is bad because of ACA. What a joke.

Obama ran on correcting the health care industry and won so it is stupid to say poles said they did not want it. Polls said they did not want questions that were posed to them, designed to give a specific outcome for political use. In other words the polls were manipulated to come out this way just like the drug companies manipulate their tests results to get drugs past FDA which kill hundreds of thousands before getting pulled from the markets.

Cliffs notes for people overseas:

Obamacare if definitely hurting the USA's economy with many companies cutting their full time workers to part time. Plus for the first time in this country's history its citizens are being forced to buy a very expensive service (health insurance) that they may not want or can't afford just for being alive. It was a real blow to personal liberty. Polls showed at the time that by a 2 to 1 majority that the citizens didn't want Obamacare, but the political party that created it gave the people their middle finger and passed it anyway. Now with the polls showing Obamacare being even less popular, the opposition party is trying to get a delay for one year before people are forced to buy insurance. I hope they are sucessfull. I get insurance through my wife's job, but my parents and brother can't afford insurance, much less the $2,000 fine every year for not having it.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Just like healthcare, its so damned expensive because of a few who sue the doctors for frivolous lawsuits, the hospitals charge the ins companies 3 times as much as if you were to pay just cash.

This rumor was started by the powerful insurance companies who wish to cause us not to look at their profits..... It both scares doctors and blames patiences how perfect for the real evil do-ers.

Companies would rather make money off a treatment instead of actually researching cures.

Drug companies are corrupt absolutely. Knowingly sell poison until caught and they take their chances in the court system they are also trying to corrupt and obstruct.

They are fixing the wrong things.

partly true, but you have to start somewhere.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Exactly!

Thanks for that one British import to America that I wish never happened. Rupert Murdock and his corrupt practice of "News" which I hope someone kills some day quickly. His fox propaganda station has half the country completely misunderstanding everything and at best they are confused. It provides fog cover for the selfish part to get their way while the stupid and confused run around like mice pointing at global warming to anwar.

Fox news is the vehicle for this misinformation campaign.

Their plane is misinformation. Blam, Blam, Blam.America is doing so bad because of the lawyers, the immigrants, the refuges, the Mexicans, the gays, the poor.. If only we can get rid of the poor this would be a better place. HUH?

oops


Aghhhhh so if your healthy it the evilness of evil cause you can buy cheap healthcare you dont need (or think feck it im healthy so i will save money by not buying it). let the poor, elderly, handicapped, infirm or just plane unlucky who get some incurable disease just rot or sell up everything they own in the hope it enough for hospital bed?


but if your not healthy or poor it not so evil as you might get the same medical advice as a multi-billionaire withoiut having to send my 90yo grandma out hooking or sacrifice my 3rd child to the lord "richmanneedsakidney" .but wait it can still be the evil of evilness as one day i might be a multi-billionaire and cant have the poor & sick in same place as me. and "oh feck if im a multi-billionaire" i will have over 50 serfs and im going to have to pay for those sniffly nosed feckers insurance.


Also it will turn USA into some sort of healthcare like that run down shanty town third world area called europe where doctors cast spells and conduct ritual dances around patients, and goats n cows roam through hospitals wards; everyone also pays every piece of earnings in tax and penicillin the only medicine. and apart from inventing the modern principles of banking, trade, democracy what would Europeans know about economics and commence.

Also none now works full time as every company doesn't want to pay health insurance for any healthcare but before they all happily paid 75% (obviously after a medical and full disclosure of medical history as no way would i want to hire a premium raiser) and it was all fluffy bunnies and candy rainbows but now it 6000000000x more expensive or just the same or cheaper but feck it lets make everyone part-time so we now need to pay zero. i do hope my company is not successful enough to require 50 employees (hmm is that full-time or part-time i wonder, must be part-time as now everyone works part-time so will not need to buy insurance for them.... but oh feck was that 50 full or part-time ... repeat Ad nauseam)




yup it as clear as mud.