Obama care?

[YeOldeStonecat]

Don't get me started on corn... mostly on that disgusting mess known as HFCS or High Fructose Corn Syrup.

And they managed to force it into our gas/petrol.....

 

[SilverLeaf]

And they managed to force it into our gas/petrol.....

Yep, unless you happen to be a corn farmer, ethanol is/was one of the most ridiculous things to come around in a long time. People are starving in the world, and we decide to use vast amounts of our food producing infrastructure and clean water supply to make crappy fuel.

 

[mr m]

Warning. Liberal rant ahead. If you're a fan of Faux Ruse, Ted Cruz or that bloviating blowhard Limbaugh you should skip this post.

Our founding fathers are doing 360's along their horizontal axis. Their vision of a democratic America had a level playing field where everyone prospered. That has morphed into a plutocracy where a handful of megalomaniac players like Dave and Charles Koch won't rest until they own the planet, your first born or at least merge with the govt and change our name to the US of America, INC.

Too many of our Congressman are nothing more than corporate shills. Legislation is routinely sold to the highest bidder. We have stooped so low that we allow private interests to march us off to bogus wars for resources. Companies like Monsanto wield enough political influence to pass laws preventing us from knowing what the hell we are eating.

That friendly sounding SCOTUS 5-4 ruling, Citizens United, says corporations are people. I thought they were an entity designed to conduct business. They don't die but they're people? BS. Thanks to that legislative crap millions of dollars pour in from every corner of the globe and influence our elections thanks to Super PACS.

Another unreal ruling was the 5-4 Kelo vs New London decision. Eminent domain was a tool the govt used to pay fair market value for private land to use for the public good. It sucked if it was your land but if we need a highway or hospital where your living room sits and lots of people will benefit, you get sent-a-packing. Now with Kelo your land can be commandeered by private industry for personal, economic gain! WTF! If Walmart wants to shutter every small biz in your town by building on your land they can take it. Mark this decision as the day democracy died and the plutocracy was born.

Hmmm. Both 5-4 decisions. For my peers in other countries that's 5 cons to 4 libs sitting on the bench of our highest court.

We used to have thousands of news outlets. Today, about 10 companies control all media. The family farms have been hijacked by the uber corporations. The division of wealth is getting more and more lopsided. You can't have a private conversation, anywhere, anymore. Justice is just another commodity.

The saddest fact of all is that things are so fucked up, 50% of eligible voters don't even get off the couch to cast a ballot. Compare that to your countries. They've given up because they are jaded by our pay to play legislative process.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Warning. Liberal rant ahead. If you're a fan of Faux Ruse, Ted Cruz or that bloviating blowhard Limbaugh you should skip this post.

Our founding fathers are doing 360's along their horizontal axis. Their vision of a democratic America had a level playing field where everyone prospered. That has morphed into a plutocracy where a handful of megalomaniac players like Dave and Charles Koch won't rest until they own the planet, your first born or at least merge with the govt and change our name to the US of America, INC.

Too many of our Congressman are nothing more than corporate shills. Legislation is routinely sold to the highest bidder. We have stooped so low that we allow private interests to march us off to bogus wars for resources. Companies like Monsanto wield enough political influence to pass laws preventing us from knowing what the hell we are eating.

That friendly sounding SCOTUS 5-4 ruling, Citizens United, says corporations are people. I thought they were an entity designed to conduct business. They don't die but they're people? BS. Thanks to that legislative crap millions of dollars pour in from every corner of the globe and influence our elections thanks to Super PACS.

Another unreal ruling was the 5-4 Kelo vs New London decision. Eminent domain was a tool the govt used to pay fair market value for private land to use for the public good. It sucked if it was your land but if we need a highway or hospital where your living room sits and lots of people will benefit, you get sent-a-packing. Now with Kelo your land can be commandeered by private industry for personal, economic gain! WTF! If Walmart wants to shutter every small biz in your town by building on your land they can take it. Mark this decision as the day democracy died and the plutocracy was born.

Hmmm. Both 5-4 decisions. For my peers in other countries that's 5 cons to 4 libs sitting on the bench of our highest court.

We used to have thousands of news outlets. Today, about 10 companies control all media. The family farms have been hijacked by the uber corporations. The division of wealth is getting more and more lopsided. You can't have a private conversation, anywhere, anymore. Justice is just another commodity.

The saddest fact of all is that things are so fucked up, 50% of eligible voters don't even get off the couch to cast a ballot. Compare that to your countries. They've given up because they are jaded by our pay to play legislative process.

Don't disagree with any of that except your declaration of yourself as a liberal. Not seeing that in your stance. Classical Liberal in the Thomas Jefferson mold but not today's liberal who as beholden to corporations as neo-con conservatives are.

 

[dbdawn]

There are several things wrong with our country today. Do I have the answers, NO. Do I think the ACA is the answer? I have a hard time seeing the long-term benefits and how this is going to be funded. We already have fiscal problems in this nation, with the top 1% of US taxpayers paying almost as much in federal income taxes as the entire bottom 95%, and half of that bottom group paid no taxes at all in 2010. Maybe if we didn't spend as much money on our defense budget as the next ten countries combined we would have some money for healthcare.

On another note, I wish more healthcare providers would do something like this.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ance-and-guess-how-much-a-simple-vist-is-now/
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2009/june/17/barter.aspx

I am also not negating the advancements in medical knowledge and technology, but a lot of our healthcare problems in this nation could be solved, not by drugs, but by eating healthy and getting exercise. http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/10/joseph-mercola/ignore-government-dietary-recommendations/

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

There are at least to credible alternatives to toxic cancer treatments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsVsTcUDlZA

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear....2j6.8.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.KEAStVmMVZs

Well said Tony. What's really irritating is finding out about a lot of good honest doctors in the past getting black balled because of a cure or natural cure they found. Like different natural cancer cures etc.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Excellent points Tony. You hit a lot of my "hot button" issues in that last post. Don't even get me started on Monsanto.....and the legal patenting of life/genes/nature....WTF? Monsanto will soon control the global food supply.

There is much evil in the world but few companies do as much damage as Monsanto. Dick Rumsfeld was a very high up executive in Monsanto or their Legal counsel and then became appointed to a very high up position in the organization of government which regulates them. This is exactly how American corruption is implemented.

If you follow some of you statements a little further, you also uncover other issues that are fundamental to the state we are in. For instance, if medical insurance was eliminated, why would anyone accrue six figures worth of educational debt to become a doctor, just to be paid in chickens? It's indeed a complicated web. Everything is connected.....rabid capitalism, healthcare, education, nutrition, poverty.....

many predict Student loans to be the next bubble and education to be the next destroyed industry but they do it to themselves. I stopped recommending expensive school choices about 4 years ago. Now I am starting to recommend not only communiticy colleges and local state universities but the new batch of 100% free online universities offered by Ivy League colleges. You get the knowledge but not the pigskin, Free.

On the topic of alternative medical treatments, natural cures, and nutritional supplements; I frequently caution people to be just as skeptical, if not more so, of this multi-billion dollar industry as you are of the formal medical/pharmaceutical establishment. Due diligence is a necessity here. This industry is completely unregulated, very profitable, and full of out right fraud. It takes a lot of research and commitment to separate the the legitimate from the bogus......of course this applies to virtually everything anymore.

I'm not saying there are no fraud but the FDA actually goes out of its way to discredit and destroy better alternatives to expensive healthcare as they see their purpose to protect the conventional health care system. In the Brzezinski case they helped two large drug companies to steal his patents by blocking him and approving their copy.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Monsanto is an example of many "bad influences" that steer our gov't and nation. Lobbying and "behind closed doors deals" took control of our countries daily routine and destiny a long time ago.
Oil/gas
Healthcare
Tobacco
Alcohol
...even "corn"...yes corn!

Harley you are so right....for those new to the topic look at the dealings of Monsanto and specifically BT.corn.

They have Genetically altered corn to be a pesticide and it disrupts the digestive system of bugs but it also causes great harm to humans but Monsanto hides this news.

Europe has traditionally blocked all US foods with food dies that cause cancer, sweeteners that cause more weight gain than sugar, genetically altered foods not tested before entering the food supply. But there has been a 8 year war on with all the International drug, chemical and oil companies to corrupt the EC regulatory systems to be more like the corrupted American system.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

And they managed to force it into our gas/petrol.....

And most of us living in agricultural areas already know that Ethanol cost more to produce than it saves(in fuel or money).

It takes more petroleum to run the tractors, make the fertilizers, harvest and produce the ethanol than what is created. It is extraordinarily expensive to do. The only way it works is with tremendous federal grants. This is one of those Corporate Welfare programs that the R side likes to fund while complaining about feeding children of working poor families.

There should be no government grants and credits to billionaire corn farmers nor ethanol producers.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Absolutely, despite it not even being economically feasible to begin with it drives up the cost of food quality corn which is immoral to those millions of people around the world who live on corn meal and make less than $1 per day.

Yep, unless you happen to be a corn farmer, ethanol is/was one of the most ridiculous things to come around in a long time. People are starving in the world, and we decide to use vast amounts of our food producing infrastructure and clean water supply to make crappy fuel.

 

[angry_geek]

First, why is this thread here?

Second, the right of one to prosper and be successful is the very definition of the American dream. A doctor spends 12 years in school and residency only to enter into a profession in which he/she gets a big fat bullseye painted onto their backs for every lawyer and gold digger in the country to aim for. I don't see how success equals greed or any of the other colorful descriptions posted here. For instance, medicaid in Illinois pays about $10 for a check up for your child. Meanwhile, the doctor has office expenses, staff, supplies, insurance, insurance, insurance, ceu's, licensing, boards, etc. Then, in Illinois, gets to pay forty to fifty thousand dollars per year for malpractice. All so someone can call them greedy because they don't work for free. OMG! Dr Jones has a Mercedes! He must be making too much money!

I encourage those of you who have medical clients to pronounce your views of Obamacare and the medical profession next time you're in their office. Should be quite interesting.

Also, make sure to ask the biller for a discount since you're paying cash. If they do it, they've violated their contracts with the insurance companies. If they bill medicare or blue-cross $75, that's what you're expected to pay as a cash pay patient. The actual negotiated PAYMENTS from the insurance companies are just that, negotiated. There are NO differences in fee schedules for cash pay. What the doctor's office does is on them, but they would lose their contract in an audit. Our family business is nearly 15 years old now, P & L Medical Claims. We're the people who make sure the insurance company pays the doctor as well as the deadbeats who think the doctor should work for free.

 

[SilverLeaf]

First, why is this thread here?

I'm not the OP, but as I mentioned in some of my comments; if you are a self employed tech without access to insurance (pre-existing condition, etc), the ACA has some tangible benefits....so the discussion has relevance here....although it has jumped the track a few times.

Second, the right of one to prosper and be successful is the very definition of the American dream. A doctor spends 12 years in school and residency only to enter into a profession in which he/she gets a big fat bullseye painted onto their backs for every lawyer and gold digger in the country to aim for. I don't see how success equals greed or any of the other colorful descriptions posted here. For instance, medicaid in Illinois pays about $10 for a check up for your child. Meanwhile, the doctor has office expenses, staff, supplies, insurance, insurance, insurance, ceu's, licensing, boards, etc. Then, in Illinois, gets to pay forty to fifty thousand dollars per year for malpractice. All so someone can call them greedy because they don't work for free. OMG! Dr Jones has a Mercedes! He must be making too much money!

I have no problem with doctors making money. In fact it's a necessary incentive. Unfortunately, a substantial portion of the costs of medical care winds up in lawyer's , malpractice insurers, and pharmaceutical companies' pockets.....all of whom are protected by the status quo and wield substantial influence over policy makers. Many doctors and care providers are stuck in the middle here.

I encourage those of you who have medical clients to pronounce your views of Obamacare and the medical profession next time you're in their office. Should be quite interesting.

Also, make sure to ask the biller for a discount since you're paying cash. If they do it, they've violated their contracts with the insurance companies. If they bill medicare or blue-cross $75, that's what you're expected to pay as a cash pay patient. The actual negotiated PAYMENTS from the insurance companies are just that, negotiated. There are NO differences in fee schedules for cash pay. What the doctor's office does is on them, but they would lose their contract in an audit. Our family business is nearly 15 years old now, P & L Medical Claims. We're the people who make sure the insurance company pays the doctor as well as the deadbeats who think the doctor should work for free.

This just serves to show how messed up everything is. As I said before, the ACA is not perfect, but it is a start....which is more than we've had in the past, and far more than we've gotten from those who are so vehemently opposed to it.

There is a substantial financial incentive for some to keep the status quo and perpetuate this horribly broken system....at the expense of those who can least afford it.

 

[phaZed]

I encourage those of you who have medical clients to pronounce your views of Obamacare and the medical profession next time you're in their office. Should be quite interesting.

I would start that conversation by stating that this study released in 2009 found that 62% of all bankruptcies (1.5 Million people) were medically related and on average families with insurance had out-of-pocket expenses paid $17,943, while people lacking insurance paid $26,971 average out-of-pocket. I would also state that 78% (3/4) of these people HAD insurance.

More recently (2013), findings from Nerdwallet Health, estimates that 1.7 million people will file for bankrupty protection this year alone due to health related events.

"The recession didn't happen until a year after our study," says Woolhandler. "We're quite sure that the problem of bankruptcy overall is worse, the numbers have been soaring, and the number this year is expected to be higher than it was before Congress tightened bankruptcy eligibility in 2005." In 2005, bankruptcies peaked at two million filings.

A doctor spends 12 years in school and residency only to enter into a profession in which he/she gets a big fat bullseye painted onto their backs for every lawyer and gold digger in the country to aim for. I don't see how success equals greed or any of the other colorful descriptions posted here.

I don't understand why you think this is an attack on doctors. Many types of doctors do not spend 12 years in school. They are a casualty. I'm sorry education costs have risen and medical school graduate debt-levels (Avg. $170,000 for 4 years) have been rising faster than inflation over the last 20 years and that the median cost of attendance in 2013 is now $228,200 (AAMC link to statistics). I'm sorry gold diggers exist and the legal system is corrupt and sues people. Perhaps if a person wants to become a doctor they should consider these pitfalls before doing so. Perhaps our so called leaders should focus their supreme abilities in fixing the core issues with our Corporatocracy.

Meanwhile, I have a hard time reconciling your statement "the right of one to prosper and be successful is the very definition of the American dream", while we bankrupt millions of people due to their misfortunes so that doctors can drive their expensive cars and be at the top 1% pay brackets. So now the crutch of the argument is "those poor doctors"? If that's your vision of the American Dream you can have it back.

The health care industry in the rest of modern developed world seems to work just fine but the US is the most expensive, providing only mediocre "service" and mediocre "results" or even questionable service in the form of excessive testing and other schemes such as the current price fixing and trade agreements concering prescription drugs.

INFOGRAPHIC

 

[coffee]

I sit here in amazement that no one has actually thought thru some reasons why our medical costs are so high. Its pretty simple and it points to the ultimate problem we have in this country - poor government.

With an open boarder on the south of us and millions of people streaming into the United States and not paying any taxes how do you actually contend to solve the healthcare problem? Every day more and more illegal aliens are coming in and using our resources for their benefit and not paying for it. They have no insurance, No taxes and send alot of the money they earn back home to Mexico.

Our Leadership in this country has soured to the point that the only reason alot of them are in office is to get as much money as they can - anyway they can. No matter what you think those in power care very little about you and me. Their only care is the almighty dollar. You want to know how countries fail? Its right in front of you. You just dont care to believe it. Poor leadership in Washington.

Your never going to have affordable health care in a country that doesnt care who comes in or when and doesnt pay any taxes. The amount of illegal aliens in our country gets bigger and bigger every day. These people use our hospitals and doctor offices as if they are free. In fact, To them it is free. Of all the people here in America the only ones that benefit from anything the government does are the illegal aliens.

So, Why are your premiums so high? Well, You have to pay for the health care of those that do not pay anything. Its very simple.

So now we have a country that is filling up with illegal aliens, Is basically bankrupt and only runs on the money they print. Those in power do not care (remember they are exempt from the new health care system) and cannot be bothered with your or my problems in this country.

Take a look at states like California. What do you think they are going to do when the government totally runs out of money and cannot afford to support them anymore? I hope you realize the only reason the doors and lights are still on in California (and other states like them) is that they have some pretty big loans every year from the federal government - Which never get paid off mind you...

To think that some new healthcare idea (law) is going to be the best thing to sliced bread is a pipe dream. What you have now is what you will have later if at all. healthcare premiums are going to continue to rise and there will be higher taxes to support it. This forces out businesses and puts people out of work. With "X" many people no longer working premiums will go up. Whats even more ludicrous is these people that will be out of work will not be able to afford healthcare once again but because of the new law they will pay a stiff penalty every year for not having it.

Did you vote for Barry? Well, Enjoy it.

coffee

 

[SilverLeaf]

I sit here in amazement that no one has actually thought thru some reasons why our medical costs are so high. Its pretty simple and it points to the ultimate problem we have in this country - poor government.

With an open boarder on the south of us and millions of people streaming into the United States and not paying any taxes how do you actually contend to solve the healthcare problem? Every day more and more illegal aliens are coming in and using our resources for their benefit and not paying for it. They have no insurance, No taxes and send alot of the money they earn back home to Mexico.

Our Leadership in this country has soured to the point that the only reason alot of them are in office is to get as much money as they can - anyway they can. No matter what you think those in power care very little about you and me. Their only care is the almighty dollar. You want to know how countries fail? Its right in front of you. You just dont care to believe it. Poor leadership in Washington.

Your never going to have affordable health care in a country that doesnt care who comes in or when and doesnt pay any taxes. The amount of illegal aliens in our country gets bigger and bigger every day. These people use our hospitals and doctor offices as if they are free. In fact, To them it is free. Of all the people here in America the only ones that benefit from anything the government does are the illegal aliens.

So, Why are your premiums so high? Well, You have to pay for the health care of those that do not pay anything. Its very simple.

So now we have a country that is filling up with illegal aliens, Is basically bankrupt and only runs on the money they print. Those in power do not care (remember they are exempt from the new health care system) and cannot be bothered with your or my problems in this country.

Take a look at states like California. What do you think they are going to do when the government totally runs out of money and cannot afford to support them anymore? I hope you realize the only reason the doors and lights are still on in California (and other states like them) is that they have some pretty big loans every year from the federal government - Which never get paid off mind you...

To think that some new healthcare idea (law) is going to be the best thing to sliced bread is a pipe dream. What you have now is what you will have later if at all. healthcare premiums are going to continue to rise and there will be higher taxes to support it. This forces out businesses and puts people out of work. With "X" many people no longer working premiums will go up. Whats even more ludicrous is these people that will be out of work will not be able to afford healthcare once again but because of the new law they will pay a stiff penalty every year for not having it.

Did you vote for Barry? Well, Enjoy it.

coffee

Some facts you may not be aware of:

1. Undocumented immigrants do indeed pay taxes. The IRS says about 6 million of them do....federal, state, and local. The CBO estimates that they pay about $7 Billion in Social Security every year
2. Undocumented workers contribute substantially to the economy. The buy things, they eat out, they rent, they pay sales tax....basically they create jobs and revenue for the areas in which they live.
3. According to the CBO, medical costs provided to illegals account for a small percentage of many states total Medicaid expenditures...almost a wash when combined with what they contribute in taxes and revenue. However, this can vary dramatically by state.
4. Most medical expenses for undocumented people tends to be for emergencies and childbirth. Generally speaking, most immigrants tend to be young and healthy. Older people in poor health are less likely to cross the border through the desert in the middle of the night.
5. Close the border and send them all home, and watch what happens to the communities in which they live and work.....and watch your grocery bill skyrocket....along with the already outrageous Homeland Security budget.

Now, I'm not saying that illegal immigration is good or bad. Sure, there are some drawbacks, especially if you happen to be a citizen competing in the same job market (unskilled and little education). But the FUD surrounding this issue is way overblown.

 

[angry_geek]

I would start that conversation by stating . . .

Please do. Let us know how that works out for you with your medical clients.

I don't understand why you think this is an attack on doctors.

Have you not read the same thread I have?

If that's your vision of the American Dream you can have it back.

I'll take it. I definitely don't want to live in a society where the successful are punished for being successful or where someone (or some entity) dictates what you deserve to make based on your profession. I much prefer hard work and a free market to be what decides that. If someone drives a fancy car, so what? Good for them. If someone falls on hard times, well that sucks. I still don't see why I should have to pay for it. If I fall on hard times, I have to find a way back up, just as I've done all my life. You can throw all the anecdotal stories and cute infographics you want out there; it won't change my view or my goal to be a successful guy in that "1 % pay bracket". I'm in business to make money, (most of) the doctors I know are in business to make money, and I'm even willing to bet you're in business to make money. I'm getting tired of being told my money must be taken from me and given to those who don't work. I'm real ****** my insurance plan is going to be nearly $600/month with a $6,000 deductible, you know because I've got one of those "Cadillac" plans.

I want to see veterans taken care of forever. Along with some other groups of people. I have no problem with that, regardless of the cost. I have problems with having to pay for someone's health care because they smoked all their lives, or ate themselves into oblivion, or shot heroin for years, caved their heads in doing something stupid, or had 6 kids they couldn't afford because they were too inconsiderate to keep their legs closed, or are just too damn lazy to work. I love altruism, but only when it makes sense. I'm a firm believer in teaching a man to fish rather than handing him my catch, as well as all the cash in my pocket.

 

[coffee]

Some facts you may not be aware of:

1. Undocumented immigrants do indeed pay taxes. The IRS says about 6 million of them do....federal, state, and local. The CBO estimates that they pay about $7 Billion in Social Security every year
2. Undocumented workers contribute substantially to the economy. The buy things, they eat out, they rent, they pay sales tax....basically they create jobs and revenue for the areas in which they live.
3. According to the CBO, medical costs provided to illegals account for a small percentage of many states total Medicaid expenditures...almost a wash when combined with what they contribute in taxes and revenue. However, this can vary dramatically by state.
4. Most medical expenses for undocumented people tends to be for emergencies and childbirth. Generally speaking, most immigrants tend to be young and healthy. Older people in poor health are less likely to cross the border through the desert in the middle of the night.
5. Close the border and send them all home, and watch what happens to the communities in which they live and work.....and watch your grocery bill skyrocket....along with the already outrageous Homeland Security budget.

Now, I'm not saying that illegal immigration is good or bad. Sure, there are some drawbacks, especially if you happen to be a citizen competing in the same job market (unskilled and little education). But the FUD surrounding this issue is way overblown.

And unemployment is only at 7.2% eh? (we all know better).

Im not so quick to swallow that stuff.

I do not believe anything this government says. But that is just me I guess. Nothing on you or anything. I enjoy your posts. We will just agree to disagree ok?

coffee

 

[TAPtech]

Not looking to get involved in the discussion but thought I would post what my state has listed on the website. I'm in CT, website is AccessHealthCT.com

I thought they would require a lot more information than this:
-Age: 27
-People in household: 1
-Annual income: I would prefer not to state on the forum

I qualify for about $30/mo in subsidies and have 19 plans listed ranging from $183-356/mo. I also checked for a 22 year old, that starts at $175.

If the ACA is relying on young healthy people to sign up, I'm not sure if that's going to happen. Everyone my age is either insured by their employer, as I used to be, or is working almost full time but not enough to get health insurance. I doubt they would sign up on their salary. Combine that with the cost of living around here, it's tough.

 

[TechLady]

No, Doctors Don't Hate Obamacare.

 

[oldtech]

This entire thread is bs with a capital B - no argument made on a forum or citing of facts is going to change anyone's mind. Whether you/me or anyone else believes the opposing view/decision is well informed or naive is immaterial. I believe that all these genre of posts accomplish is to breed discontent in what imho should be an apolitical business and technology related forum. Yes it's in General Chat - whoop. Also I'm pretty damn sure that there aren't many employing 50 plus bodies so as a business topic it's weak.

+1 on the troll factor to the OP( especially having no skin in the game) but I wish to God that the mods would lock threads like this by post 10. There are plenty of other outlets for this type of discourse.

I only wish more tech related threads were as animated....