Obama care?

[Pants]

I don't think there's anything wrong with socializing health care to a certain extent. Medicare and Social Security are examples of socialism, which have helped genuinely needy people great deal, and when they are able to go back to work, they will pay back into that system. I think everybody can genuinely benefit from this kind of assurance that if they really need the help it will be there for them. That isn't to say Social Security and Medicare are perfect. There are countries that are partly capitalism and partly socialism. The US is primarily a capitalist country, and part socialistic, however, unlike a full socialized country, as those which exist. I think the Obama administration is pushing for fully socialized government and doing it illegally. The president has invoked many powers illegally, explicitly running over the constitution.

Obamacare takes it way too far, at least for those who believe in a free market, and a capitalist nation. I agree with the said notion that Obamacare is not really about HEALTH CARE, rather it's more about a hidden agenda to take control of our lives; The health care system is now a disaster and yet Obama continues to tout how great Obamacare is...Why? Because he's stubborn, or just prideful? I'm not sure I believe that, although I think that may be partly the case. Your health is the most important thing you have, and the government substantially controlling that is just scary. What better way to take control of people's lives than controlling the most important thing they have? Their health! If you are a full blown left-winged liberal and prefer fully socialized medicine, or believe the crazy idea that health care is a natural right, then Obamacare is definitely for you. What a great idea....Cut off the arms and legs of the middle class and hand the over to the poor, so everybody is equal, and create only POOR and WEALTHY class folks. Why would anybody want to work hard and try to prosper if their money is going to be indirectly taken from them and given to people who don't want to work? It takes away your drive to work hard. This is what's being done in Obamacare. These insane prices will destroy the middle class family if Obamacare continues unchecked.

I'm grateful for the Healthcare "Sharing" ministries where if you join, you're exempt from the Obamacare Market place, and paying the fine. It may not provide "insurance" in the classical sense, but it does provide an affordable alternative to current government controlled health care.

 

[14049752]

I'm grateful for the Healthcare "Sharing" ministries where if you join, you're exempt from the Obamacare Market place, and paying the fine. It may not provide "insurance" in the classical sense, but it does provide an affordable alternative to current government controlled health care.

First, it's not government controlled. You buy insurance from a private insurance company. The only way it's not a free market, is because you have to have coverage of some sort....from the company of your choosing.

Second, how is a healthcare sharing ministry any better? They have so many rules and restrictions, and exemptions to getting money, that I'd almost be afraid to pay them. They use blatant discrimination and they're not required to pay any bill. This option seems WAY worse to me.... at least insurance companies have laws in place regulating how they pay and preventing discrimination.

 

[Pants]

First, it's not government controlled. You buy insurance from a private insurance company. The only way it's not a free market, is because you have to have coverage of some sort....from the company of your choosing.

Ok so, government doesn't own the market, they only FORCE the market to provide overpriced coverage, and then fine you if you don't buy it.

They use blatant discrimination

That isn't a bad thing, and besides there is reasonable justification for it. If you don't like it then don't buy into it.

and they're not required to pay any bill.

If the system didn't work then people would not buy into it, and the government certainly wouldn't provide exemption from the FINE for it, if it didn't work. It obviously works.

This option seems WAY worse to me.... at least insurance companies have laws in place regulating how they pay and preventing discrimination.

I did say it's not an "insurance" solution.

 

[Rocco]

If I told you I had a plan that I don't pay a monthly premium, pay $8 per visit and $2 per prescription. If I need surgery, they will refer me and I will pay the same amounts. If whatever I am being seen for can anyway be related to my serving the country, I don't even pay that. Thee hospital I go to is open 24 hours a day with a decent emergency room. It sounds too good to be true, but does it sound like health insurance? My veterans affairs stuff does not count towards individual health care. Why the heck not? I earned it. They will handle anything I need handled.

So I looked at the exchange. in Wyoming, only 2 health insurance companies are allowed to do business. For many years, only one was allowed in. So I put in my numbers. Less than 24k a year. One dependent. 32 years old. $650 a month. but its OK, I qualified for subsidies, which brought it down to $375 a month. Look at my annual income again. How the .... am I supposed to pay that? And again, any of my medical needs are covered. Should I have to pay anything? I do hate the bill.

Let me be clear, I will be fined because the VA does not count as health insurance.

 

[lsi]

Lots of interesting (and naive) replies here. All I will say is that I and my family have lost 3 different policies since Obamacare was put in place. Each one covers less and is more expensive. There is nothing comprehensive or affordable about the plans that I have tried to sign up for in the health exchanges.

 

[scoop818]

I think ones feelings on Obamacare all boils down to how it personally affects you. On the news we hear horror stories of folks losing their insurance because of the law, then when its investigated we find out most people can actually go to the exchange and find either a comparable or better plan for less

Others are adversely affected by seeing their premium rise.

Personally, the ACA has impacted my situation in a positive way, my wife and I are both 40+, self-employed, with 4 school aged kids. Since I left my corporate job where I paid $280 a month for great health, dental and vision, we have been forced into the individual market in NJ which we pay north of $1200 a month for not even comparable coverage.

With the new Obamacare plan we will be getting the comparable coverage from the same insurer for almost half what we pay now. So I look at it as a win.

I have always felt and still believe the whole insurance business is a huge scam. People denied coverage for miniscule reasons, premiums rising 2-3 times that of wages, but what can you do. I have kids, anything can happen to me or them and without insurance you are screwed.

Some have the gaul to say hey everyone is already covered you can just go to the emergency room if your sick. Try breaking your leg and go to the ER with no insurance, sure they will treat you, but be ready in 10 days when that bill comes and they want $5000 for the privilege of letting you sit in their ER for 3 hours, giving you some pain killers, a cast and some crutches. "Don't pay", you say, be ready for the collection calls, ruined credit and lawsuit.

All I'm trying to say is I'm screwed either way. So if the president wants to create a law that helps me and my family maintain a certain level of comfort at a much more affordable rate than the current market, then I say 2 things: thank you Mr. President and fix the damn website.

 

[coffee]

Personally, the ACA has impacted my situation in a positive way, my wife and I are both 40+, self-employed, with 4 school aged kids. Since I left my corporate job where I paid $280 a month for great health, dental and vision, we have been forced into the individual market in NJ which we pay north of $1200 a month for not even comparable coverage.

Just so I understand this right ok?

Working for a rather large company your share of the health costs were 280 a month. Your employer picked up the rest of the cost. But out of just your pocket you paid 280 a month. Then Obamacare forced you to go to the private sector for a qoute and it was "north" of 1200 a month. So, You signed up for Obamacare and now your paying "north" of 600 a month - and your happy with that.

So, Obamacare killed your companies plan for health coverage and you ended up paying north of 350 a month more for coverage. This is considered a good deal by you.

 

[Markverhyden]

Just so I understand this right ok?

Working for a rather large company your share of the health costs were 280 a month. Your employer picked up the rest of the cost. But out of just your pocket you paid 280 a month. Then Obamacare forced you to go to the private sector for a qoute and it was "north" of 1200 a month. So, You signed up for Obamacare and now your paying "north" of 600 a month - and your happy with that.

So, Obamacare killed your companies plan for health coverage and you ended up paying north of 350 a month more for coverage. This is considered a good deal by you.

No he said he is self-employed now. But the real issue is that there is no free ride anywhere. ACA is going to send rates sky rocketing in many areas because of the prior conditions clauses. Meaning you cannot be denied coverage based on prior conditions and all prior conditions must be treated. Here in MA the rates are not going to change much since they have had a state mandate for some time. The lowest rates for a single person are in the 300-400/month range but you will have deductibles in the 1000's before you actually see any real coverage

 

[coffee]

No he said he is self-employed now. But the real issue is that there is no free ride anywhere. ACA is going to send rates sky rocketing in many areas because of the prior conditions clauses. Meaning you cannot be denied coverage based on prior conditions and all prior conditions must be treated. Here in MA the rates are not going to change much since they have had a state mandate for some time. The lowest rates for a single person are in the 300-400/month range but you will have deductibles in the 1000's before you actually see any real coverage

I agree with you 100%. Missed that part about now self employed. However, With what you say about the deductibles (I agree there too) that its NOT a good deal. But it amazes me how some look at OHC and think "gee, this is great".

Thanks for your post,

coffee

 

[Pants]

Lots of interesting (and naive) replies here.

Yah, either they are naive, or they are deliberately misrepresenting facts in order to help the liberal agenda...As their belief goes: "The end justifies the means"

Adolf Hitler said, "It is not truth that matters, but victory"

 

[altrenda]

Adolf Hitler said, "It is not truth that matters, but victory"

Are you sure it wasn't Taylor Swift who said that?



Godwin lives.

 

[TAPtech]

My take on this is that Obamacare is just to get more people health insurance. The fact that they called it the Affordable Care Act is really misleading. It's only affordable to people who would have otherwise been paying a complete heap of cash previously, like those with very expensive health issues.

My guess is that healthcare costs are so high here because everything down to a box of tissues costs way too much. Healthcare is just a hot market.

I can see this in machine shops. Everyone wants to be a medical shop because they make a ton of money. You do need high quality standards, but there are plenty of other market segments where you need the same or higher standards like aerospace.

Competition should reduce the prices for these parts, but the machine shops that can get in the door to make those medical prices are run by really smart people. They know the market. They know to charge as much as they can get for the items. The price stays high. This is like the way the IT world was 10-20 years ago. Now the market is flooded with not only "pizza-techs" but real techs who collectively bring the profit margins down.

Health care is a service that people are willing to pay a lot of money for, and so the fees are high. The government forcing everyone to get insurance won't change that.

I'm 27 and it looks like my plan would be about $175/mo, assuming the estimate is accurate. I am fortunate enough to be healthy, so I'll probably choose to go uninsured and pay the fine.

I don't think many young healthy men, who are needed to lower the cost-per-person, are going to buy into something if the "penalty" is so much cheaper than getting the product.

 

[mraikes]

.... snipped....

I don't think many young healthy men, who are needed to lower the cost-per-person, are going to buy into something if the "penalty" is so much cheaper than getting the product.

It makes perfect sense. Obama and the politicians behind him aren't stupid. If you buy insurance the money goes to the insurance and health industries. Who benefits the most? Not the healthy young guy. And not the government either.

If the penalty is paid instead, that amount of money is first taxed as normal income and then seized for the government coffers. So who benefits from the penalty payment? Arguably, the healthy guy keeping more money in his pocket by not paying for insurance. But the absolute winners are politicians who aren't bound by the same health care laws but get ALL of the penalty money to do with as they will.

In the end, which scenario most benefits the political establishment? You having health insurance? Nope. You paying a penalty? Yup.

 

[Pants]

Godwin lives.

Just because some guy asserts that hitler is brought up frequently in many discussions doesn't mean Hitler does not have relevance to the discussion here. I'd bet that anybody sympathetic to Hitler's ideals frequently touts "Godwin" from their arsenal.

We are discussing a socialistic topic...OBAMACARE, which is being pushed primarily by a group of radical liberals (socialists) who are breaking the law and LYING to get what they want. Sound familiar? Certainly not far off from Hitler's ideology.

 

[SilverLeaf]

Just because some guy asserts that hitler is brought up frequently in many discussions doesn't mean Hitler does not have relevance to the discussion here. I'd bet that anybody sympathetic to Hitler's ideals frequently touts "Godwin" from their arsenal.

We are discussing a socialistic topic...OBAMACARE, which is being pushed primarily by a group of radical liberals (socialists) who are breaking the law and LYING to get what they want. Sound familiar? Certainly not far off from Hitler's ideology.

No, it seems that others are discussing the ACA, and you are kind of off to the side ranting about unrelated topics and ignorantly trying to draw parallels between Hitler and Obama.

 

[scoop818]

I'm 27 and it looks like my plan would be about $175/mo, assuming the estimate is accurate. I am fortunate enough to be healthy, so I'll probably choose to go uninsured and pay the fine.

I don't think many young healthy men, who are needed to lower the cost-per-person, are going to buy into something if the "penalty" is so much cheaper than getting the product.

I'm 42, healthy and never spent a day of my life in a hospital. Part of that is because I see my doctor regularly and take preventative steps. It is not my goal to defend or attack the law, I only speak from my personal circumstance. A married man with children, so insurance is a must for me and mines.

I have a personal responsibility to provide and protect for my love ones, and like it or not having decent health care coverage is part of that.

Insurance is one of those things you never want until you need it, unfortunately by then its usually to late. I think I mentioned this in a earlier post, but we have a family friend who actually went bankrupt, from medical costs after a heart attack at 38 with no health coverage. Lost his home, one of his cars, kids out of private school etc.

Granted that's an extreme case, but it happened and it was enough to scare me. My family depends on me doing my part to provide for them, so it would be irresponsible for me to have some freak accident or illness and have to sell all that I've worked for because I didn't have insurance.

The whole insurance system is a racket. Have you ever looked at your bill when you go for a doctors visit. The doctor may charge $200 for the visit you pay a $15 co pay-the insurance company is billed $185.00 of that they pay the Doctor like $60. Send you the receipt and say bill settled, its the "negotiated rate". Go to the ER for something and you can add an extra 0 to the numbers above.

$2000 visit
$ 150 co pay
$1850 billed
$600 paid
case closed.

Got no insurance the hospital wants all $2000.00 from you. No $600negotiated rate, no copay, they want every red cent.

I think its just a shame, that anyone who tries to make an honest living, provide for his or her family and not be a burden on society constantly gets creamed by "the system".

To me its not a democrat or republican thing per se', its just the screwed up way the system works. So again I say me having an extra $7k to not spend on health care works for me. I hope it works out, does it have flaws; hell yes. What the powers that be need to be doing is trying to fix those flaws so that it or something like it works. Its sad to say but unfortunately it probably wont work, because, there are too many who are dead set against it, some for some very legitimate reasons others who are just to ignorant to think for themselves.

Its always been easier to destroy rather than build.

 

[SilverLeaf]

No he said he is self-employed now. But the real issue is that there is no free ride anywhere. ACA is going to send rates sky rocketing in many areas because of the prior conditions clauses. Meaning you cannot be denied coverage based on prior conditions and all prior conditions must be treated. Here in MA the rates are not going to change much since they have had a state mandate for some time. The lowest rates for a single person are in the 300-400/month range but you will have deductibles in the 1000's before you actually see any real coverage

Deductibles can be tricky. Sure, a plan may have a $1500 annual deductible. But, chances are that office visits might not be subject to that deductible, and only require a small co-pay. Prescriptions can be the same way, or they may have a separate, and usually much smaller deductible. The devil is in the details of the plan you choose.

 

[scoop818]

ACA is socialism, whether you understand that or not, or whether you like it or not, and lots of people in this thread have "ranted" about the law, so stop pointing your finger at ME.

Socialism: a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies.

That's the definition according to Webster.

When I signed up for the ACA, I was told that my payments are to be made to my insurance company. Unless the government bought or "took over" Horizon Blue Cross Blue shield and I didn't know about it, I don't get how that's socialism.

We use these hot "code words" that scare people into believing something that isn't true. Its obvious to me you oppose the law, and as an American citizen that is your right, but calling a hard drive a stick of ram doesn't make it one. Just like comparing an American President to a delusional racist dictator does little to lend credibility to your rightful opposition of the ACA.

 

[altrenda]

You have a different definition of socialism than I do. A scheme that funnels most of the health care dollars spent in the country through private insurance companies, including tax dollars in the form of subsidies, is not what I would call socialism.

Mandatory health insurance isn't any more socialistic than mandatory auto insurance, motorcyle helmet laws, tax funded fire departments, or compulsory education. Government overreach maybe, but not socialism.

 

[Pants]

Sorry, couldn't repost fast enough.

No, it seems that others are discussing the ACA...you are kind of off to the side ranting about unrelated topics and ignorantly trying to draw parallels between Hitler and Obama.

And you are ignorantly criticizing ME.

Quote from OP:

As someone looking in on the outside.



what is so evil about the affordable care act (obamacare) that is has resulted in US government not agreeing on a yearly budget to run the country?

Ring a bell?

ACA is socialism, whether you understand that or not, or whether you like it or not, and lots of people in this thread have "ranted" about the law. So stop pointing your finger at ME.